7 - Philippe Coutinho - V1

MTL_Barca

Well-known member
One can blame Valverde enough for Coutinho's situation for sure.
No doubt about his bad form (and a bit of lack of luck too) but just compare him to his fellow countryman Arthur for a minute.

Both shield the ball extremely well, both have low center of gravity. Countinho is a good dribbler, Arthur is okay. Countinho is very creative player, less merit goes for Arthur in that regard.
So why does Arthur perform much better if you compare their overall performances?
Easy to answer, because the difference is in the expectations towards them.
Coutinho's profile is somewhat similar to Messi's, I mean if when Messi plays relatively deep.

So what's wrong with him in the strange Valverde system?
Another easy one: Arthur loses much less balls but he is expected to play relatively safely. At the same time Coutinho is expected to represent much more of attacking danger, so he needs to take those risks that Arthur - for instance - is not expected to do.
So the difference between the two is how they make decisions right after a good initial move. Arthur will make a safe side-pass or back-pass, whereas Coutinho will not try to "play safe" so naturally he has to take some risks, but he has to do that in a position relatively strange to his character, because I guess we all agree upon the fact that he is not a winger, never been a real one.

When he plays for Brazil, usually right behind Neymar, apart from his known curved shots, he actually plays a kind of "Messi role", that's why he usually played quite well when played in the middle besides Messi. But in the present system, being forced to play on the extreme left, close to Alba, he simply doesn't know what to do, apart from looking for Messi and occasionally trying his famous shot from outside the box.
Thus, when Arthur finishes some nice moves with safe passes, he becomes a hero, but Coutinho doesn't know what to do and how to create some danger, because Suarez plays how he does nowadays and Messi is on the right, far from him.

I have said many times here that he was bought as an Iniesta replacement, so unless he is allowed to do just that, I can't see his future in the team, regardless of his price-tag, because I personally don't care for that.

Barca used to have the MSN, and the trio has delivered. Not only some good results but mostly spectacular and truly creative solutions.
But Valverde came with his mediocre personality, with the acidic face of a schoolmaster, Neymar left and that was the end of Barca's famous attacking football.
His main problem with Dembele was if he ran back often enough to defend, everyone had to focus on the defense part, and because both Messi and Suarez are untouchables, he tried to force that 4-4-2 which is still haunting every game.
So Coutinho will play spectacular games with Brazil - I'm sure of that - in a much more creative and free system compared to Valverde's pretty awful understanding of creative football...

Not saying you aren't right but again it just sounds a bit too much like an excuse for Cou playing way too bad for his (supposed) quality. He may not be the best fit on LW but it's not like we play him as a GK or CB.

You said it yourself Cou is an attacking player, but Iniesta wasn't a pure AM. I doubt Cou could just play like Arthur but chooses to run into opponents instead so i don't think the comparison checks out. Iniesta could play CM and AM at the same time to perfection, we bought an AM to replace him. While our manager prefers to play CMs there and the AM has the problem that we have Messi who pretty much plays as an AM too because he's never on the wing and drops deep all the time.

Like i agree to an extent, i mean just throw Cou into the ManCity squad where Pep regularly plays with two players who could be classified as "too offensive" AMs and he would probably look better but i still think you make it sound like we just have to play Cou at the Iniesta spot and everything will work out eventually. But at this point i have serious doubts it'll be like that. It could also just be another case of "James getting dropped to play a 2CM+DM setup" at Real Madrid where there just isn't space for another attacking player, especially because we already have Messi running (walking) around in the same areas.
 
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George_Costanza

Active member
One can blame Valverde enough for Coutinho's situation for sure.
No doubt about his bad form (and a bit of lack of luck too) but just compare him to his fellow countryman Arthur for a minute.

Both shield the ball extremely well, both have low center of gravity. Countinho is a good dribbler, Arthur is okay. Countinho is very creative player, less merit goes for Arthur in that regard.
So why does Arthur perform much better if you compare their overall performances?
Easy to answer, because the difference is in the expectations towards them.
Coutinho's profile is somewhat similar to Messi's, I mean if when Messi plays relatively deep.

So what's wrong with him in the strange Valverde system?
Another easy one: Arthur loses much less balls but he is expected to play relatively safely. At the same time Coutinho is expected to represent much more of attacking danger, so he needs to take those risks that Arthur - for instance - is not expected to do.
So the difference between the two is how they make decisions right after a good initial move. Arthur will make a safe side-pass or back-pass, whereas Coutinho will not try to "play safe" so naturally he has to take some risks, but he has to do that in a position relatively strange to his character, because I guess we all agree upon the fact that he is not a winger, never been a real one.

When he plays for Brazil, usually right behind Neymar, apart from his known curved shots, he actually plays a kind of "Messi role", that's why he usually played quite well when played in the middle besides Messi. But in the present system, being forced to play on the extreme left, close to Alba, he simply doesn't know what to do, apart from looking for Messi and occasionally trying his famous shot from outside the box.
Thus, when Arthur finishes some nice moves with safe passes, he becomes a hero, but Coutinho doesn't know what to do and how to create some danger, because Suarez plays how he does nowadays and Messi is on the right, far from him.

I have said many times here that he was bought as an Iniesta replacement, so unless he is allowed to do just that, I can't see his future in the team, regardless of his price-tag, because I personally don't care for that.

Barca used to have the MSN, and the trio has delivered. Not only some good results but mostly spectacular and truly creative solutions.
But Valverde came with his mediocre personality, with the acidic face of a schoolmaster, Neymar left and that was the end of Barca's famous attacking football.
His main problem with Dembele was if he ran back often enough to defend, everyone had to focus on the defense part, and because both Messi and Suarez are untouchables, he tried to force that 4-4-2 which is still haunting every game.
So Coutinho will play spectacular games with Brazil - I'm sure of that - in a much more creative and free system compared to Valverde's pretty awful understanding of creative football...

Coutinho is struggling to adapt, I don't want to blame Valverde for it. Coutinho's main strength is similar to Messi, having the ball close to his feet and dribble past players. This is how he used to dictate the game at Liverpool, he was allowed to keep the ball longer while in Barcelona you are expcted to pass the ball and move along. You can dribble past a player or two but try to make that pass. Ball movement and triangular passing are a priority at Barcelona, Coutinho needs to learn that.
 

Potroh

New member
Ball movement and triangular passing are a priority at Barcelona, Coutinho needs to learn that.

Indeed, that used to be the case for quite some time. But now?
Triangular passing (preferably with one touch) with Vidal or Suarez? Come on...

No team on Earth brings out the ball so slowly and so predictably compared to Barca. For quite some time it was very useful against opponents who tried to press high, so Barca used to let the opponents to run much more. That's why Barca was famous winning most of the games in the second half, when the opponent got tired.
That's why God forbid Barca to concede a first goal relatively late in the game, because despite their individual skill and vigour, building up the "usual" attacking formation is so slow, that by now every opponent knows what is going to come.

Hence "adapting" to this is almost like going a step backwards - compared to the contemporary trends - and it's only individual creativity is what keeps alive the Valverde system, which is still based on meaningless ball possession, leaving the rest on Messi, Suarez or by now Dembele, if they have a good day to do something creative and conjure up something unexpected, despite that it takes 2 minutes to bring out the ball - each and every time...
 

Jombi

New member
Coutinho doesnt have anywhere near the composure that Arthur has, and he'll never get it. Its not simply something a player like Coutinho can learn. It requires great tactical awareness and exceptional ball control in tight spaces. Cesc-type of players cant learn that. They have very different instincts. Its not simply just playing it safe and things will work out.
 

pregra

Active member
A bigger disgrace than Suarez IMO. He is in his prime physically and just lurks around like a spoiled little child. Has literally zero balls. Fucking fuming here
 

ronniecro

Active member
i was containing myself of calling him flop but man is he bad,anemic as shit,pathetic body language,no spark,no fight,no spirit,offers nothing...i still think he's not playing in position from which he can give the most,but he is appaling
 

Raketa10

Senior Member
This has nothing to do with position it's like he lost his entire passion for football. Can't understand what happened to him. His body language is horrible, like someone is forcing him to play.

His dream was to play for Barca and he now looks lost. Something went wrong but but what? Maybe he has some personal issues.
 
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Raki13

Active member
Guy is not good enough for La Liga , its happened to many players who have been good in other countries and flop in this league because the standard is higher.

Get rid while we can get money for him , we are never getting anywhere near what was paid for him.
 

ronniecro

Active member
This has nothing to do with position it's like he lost his entire passion for football. Can't understand what happened to him. His body language is horrible, like someone is forcing him to play.

His dream was to play for Barca and he now looks lost. Something went wrong but but what? Maybe he has some personal issues.

yeah,we should ship him back to liverpool,he looked somewhat happy there
 

ArthurForever

New member
Another disappointing performance by Coutinho. Lazy passes, lazy runs, lazy defence, lazy body language, lazy performance overall.

I'd play Alena over Coutinho now everyday. You can literally see the difference Alena made this game.
 

giorgoXXI

Member
Overall a disappointing performance, but I could see small glimpses of him coming back to form. After the Clasicos, need to try him in midfield, that would be hist last chance. In no way he is capable of benching Dembele on the left wing.
 

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