9 - Robert Lewandowski

MonteCuler

MonteCuler

Well-known member
Maradona37 said:
And, again, explain it to me - if modern football is so far superior to past football, are you saying that Jesse Lingard was a better player than George Best?

Do you not 'get' that a player can be born a genius in 1946 and another player can be born mediocre (relative to the older player) in 1992? And both make it to the top of the game in their respective eras?

It reminds me of the time I seen some clueless fuck claim Pele would struggle to make Norwich's bench these days (even if trained up to modern standards). Too many morons have been brainwashed by this 'modern football is amazing, old football is bollocks' garbage and make completely OTT statements!
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Past bias makes no sense. Everything evolves to a better and more sophisticated level as time goes by, but that doesn't mean those from the less sophisticated times should be disregarded now.

Art has evolved to be better over time, just like football. Modern artists will in some cases, with all their modern equipment, technology, resources, support and education, maybe create a work of art reminiscent of what only the very best in history could do. Something that if you were to show to Da Vinci 500 years ago he'd say "holy shit, I've never seen anything like it". But does that mean these modern artists are in a way superior to Da Vinci? No, absolutely not.

Da Vinci invented all the techniques and ideas they are working with in the first place. He did what they do now without any support of technology, with his bare hands and genius mind.

My point is, in football Pele is like Da Vinci. A lot of tricks and feints used by modern footballers were first invented by Pele. Pele, with the use of modern medicine and equipment, would have no problem adapting to modern football and performing at the level required for it (probably way above required too, because he was immensely talented and it's a fact obvious to everyone). Just like Da Vinci with modern technologies would create works of art that these modern artists can't even think of.

It's okay to argue modern football has better footballers than him. There are some who have a case for it. But Pele is there at the very top and will most likely remain forever. With all due respect to Lewandowski who is also a fantastic footballer, comparing him to Pele who is a whole dimension above in all aspects is too disrespectful to the game itself.
 
TemporaryFan

TemporaryFan

Well-known member
MonteCuler said:
Past bias makes no sense. Everything evolves to a better and more sophisticated level as time goes by, but that doesn't mean those from the less sophisticated times should be disregarded now.

Art has evolved to be better over time, just like football. Modern artists will in some cases, with all their modern equipment, technology, resources, support and education, maybe create a work of art reminiscent of what only the very best in history could do. Something that if you were to show to Da Vinci 500 years ago he'd say "holy shit, I've never seen anything like it". But does that mean these modern artists are in a way superior to Da Vinci? No, absolutely not.

Da Vinci invented all the techniques and ideas they are working with in the first place. He did what they do now without any support of technology, with his bare hands and genius mind.

My point is, in football Pele is like Da Vinci. A lot of tricks and feints used by modern footballers were first invented by Pele. Pele, with the use of modern medicine and equipment, would have no problem adapting to modern football and performing at the level required for it (probably way above required too, because he was immensely talented and it's a fact obvious to everyone). Just like Da Vinci with modern technologies would create works of art that these modern artists can't even think of.

It's okay to argue modern football has better footballers than him. There are some who have a case for it. But Pele is there at the very top and will most likely remain forever. With all due respect to Lewandowski who is also a fantastic footballer, comparing him to Pele who is a whole dimension above in all aspects is too disrespectful to the game itself.
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Certainly. Excellent post.
Sport, like art and science, eveloves into something more sophisticated and most of all, more efficient. Similarly, in chess analogy, there's no possible way that Casablanca, or Lasker could defeat Bobby Fisher or Tal who in turn would probably not beat Kasparov who'd stand no chance against Magnus Carlson. It does not mean that the earlier champs are deserving less fame.

Definitely, today's Spain or France would defeat 1966 England or 1970 Brazil or the total footbal of Netherlands from 1974. Hands down.
 
KingLeo10

KingLeo10

Senior Member
TemporaryFan said:
Certainly. Excellent post.
Sport, like art and science, eveloves into something more sophisticated and most of all, more efficient. Similarly, in chess analogy, there's no possible way that Casablanca, or Lasker could defeat Bobby Fisher or Tal who in turn would probably not beat Kasparov who'd stand no chance against Magnus Carlson. It does not mean that the earlier champs are deserving less fame.

Definitely, today's Spain or France would defeat 1966 England or 1970 Brazil or the total footbal of Netherlands from 1974. Hands down.
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Surprised you know all of the chess World Champions.
 
RedxMAK

RedxMAK

Well-known member
TemporaryFan said:
Certainly. Excellent post.
Sport, like art and science, eveloves into something more sophisticated and most of all, more efficient. Similarly, in chess analogy, there's no possible way that Casablanca, or Lasker could defeat Bobby Fisher or Tal who in turn would probably not beat Kasparov who'd stand no chance against Magnus Carlson. It does not mean that the earlier champs are deserving less fame.

Definitely, today's Spain or France would defeat 1966 England or 1970 Brazil or the total footbal of Netherlands from 1974. Hands down.
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I’m pretty sure Kasparov and Carlsen played once when Carlsen was 13. And Carlsen was about to win him until Kasparov made it a draw before he could lose. Saw it once on YouTube.
 
TemporaryFan

TemporaryFan

Well-known member
RedxMAK said:
I’m pretty sure Kasparov and Carlsen played once when Carlsen was 13. And Carlsen was about to win him until Kasparov made it a draw before he could lose. Saw it once on YouTube.
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Chess still advances. One might think of it as a finite game, which it is but from a human perspective, it still remains limitless in terms of general style of play, strategies, strategies geared against a given opponent and even those are way above the chess wisdom of 50-100 years ago.

The same can be said about football. Not only general tactics are more advanced, subjected to highly sophisticated analysis backed by stats and individual players physical and performance data, but also their better motor skills, strength and endurance. If you look at those players of 1970s, they all resemble long distance runners.
Today's ones are much more like MMA fighters, or at the least elite triathlon athletes.
 
KingLeo10

KingLeo10

Senior Member
Prime Kasparov wouldn't be easy for Carlsen, even with the advance in knowledge. The man still is the most dominant player relative to his peers (which includes Karpov, Anand, and Kramnik) for the longest amount of time (20 years).
 
TemporaryFan

TemporaryFan

Well-known member
KingLeo10 said:
Prime Kasparov wouldn't be easy for Carlsen, even with the advance in knowledge. The man still is the most dominant player relative to his peers (which includes Karpov, Anand, and Kramnik) for the longest amount of time (20 years).
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I am not going to argue that. Kasparov was a special kind. Also, if Bobby Fisher was brought back to live he would get caught up fast too.
The point I am trying to make is that them both would need to get caught up with how the game is played today...that's chess though and that's 95% brain. Football is about tactics and biophysics, also talent and skills but these things equal, today's footballer, in a general sense, is more physically advanced than his father, and twice as much as the grandfather.
 
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