9 - Robert Lewandowski

J

JustAnotherBarcaFan

Member
Maradona37 said:
Same point goes for Messi and Ronaldo against PL teams yet you're always defending Ronaldo and insulting Messi.

'Lewandowski has won Bundesligas without Bayern and Bayern have performed worse in the Bundesliga immediately after Lewandowski left.'

Sheer coincidence for the latter part. They've replaced him with Kane now. Yes they didn't win the league last season but that was an anomaly.
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It was not an anomaly. Last year they lost title and even 2nd place, 2 years back (first season without Lewa), they nearly lost title, remember? Borussia had to just win their last game to get the title but they lost 🤦‍♂️. And no Bayern player scored more then 15 goals that season, which means for me there was no leader in the attack.

And don’t know if you remember what happened to Borussia when Lewandowski left? If not: they were in the relegation zone for quite a moment and finally finished 7th while with Lewandowski year earlier they were 2nd and Lewa was best league scorer with 20 goals.

a lot of coincidences, don’t you think? 🤔

For me it proves that these teams were more dependent on the „Lewa type striker” then people think.
 
Maradona37

Maradona37

Well-known member
JustAnotherBarcaFan said:
It was not an anomaly. Last year they lost title and even 2nd place, 2 years back (first season without Lewa), they nearly lost title, remember? Borussia had to just win their last game to get the title but they lost 🤦‍♂️. And no Bayern player scored more then 15 goals that season, which means for me there was no leader in the attack.

And don’t know if you remember what happened to Borussia when Lewandowski left? If not: they were in the relegation zone for quite a moment and finally finished 7th while with Lewandowski year earlier they were 2nd and Lewa was best league scorer with 20 goals.

a lot of coincidences, don’t you think? 🤔

For me it proves that these teams were more dependent on the „Lewa type striker” then people think.
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Fair enough.

Ironically I mentioned all of those events recently in other threads, especially the 2023 home game against Mainz.

Obviously teams will miss good players, but equally you seem to be implying losing Lewa is the sole reason for that. It will have been a big factor but there will have been other issues at play too. Like with Dortmund they were ending the natural cycle of that team anyway and Klopp was clearly becoming stale there, and would stop managing then go to Liverpool near the end of 2015, 1.5 seasons after Lewa left. Correlation is not causation. It's not all 'Lewa left and that fucked the team'. Plus it was only one season - naturally they would feel losing Lewa but they recovered in the years since - not enough to win the title but enough to get high finishes and they didn't stop being a top team (in German terms) just because Lewa left. They struggled then they recovered.

I was underplaying it by saying it was all coincidences, but as I say, there were a lot of other factors in these moments rather than just 'Lewa left'. Plus one CL in 8 Lewa seasons is hardly great for Bayern, so they did flat-track bully the league.

Anyway watching some football so not in the mood to argue. I respect your view.
 
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J

JustAnotherBarcaFan

Member
Maradona37 said:
Tell me why a narrow parameter/criterion ;=like 'away goals in the CL post 2016' makes all the difference to you?

As someone else noted, Uruguay had declined hugely over a lot of decades - Suarez and other players got them back near the top of the game. Uruguay is a smaller country than Poland population wise and they were as poor if not worse of a team than Poland, so why don't you note Lewa basically having zero impact for bringing back Poland to a good level? I don't blame him for that at all, but extra credit must go to Suarez for being one of the main on-field catalysts in Uruguay's resurgence.
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With all due respect, Uruguay without Suarez is just better team the Poland without Lewandowski IMHO. 9 out of 10 games at WC Uruguay would have won. And don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that Lewa did miracles in NT but saying that he has 0 impact for national team is just disrespectful (see Euro qualification 2016 for example)
 
Maradona37

Maradona37

Well-known member
JustAnotherBarcaFan said:
With all due respect, Uruguay without Suarez is just better team the Poland without Lewandowski IMHO. 9 out of 10 games at WC Uruguay would have won. And don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that Lewa did miracles in NT but saying that he has 0 impact for national team is just disrespectful (see Euro qualification 2016 for example)
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Qualification doesn't mean much to me, to be fair. He did ok in the tournament that year though. You likely mean qualification from the actual tournament group anyway.

Uruguay are the better team but Suarez has been significantly better than Lewa at international level. And, like I say, Suarez did well in 2010 wc and winning 2011 ca which is when Uruguay's main resurgence started - it's not like he came into a great team and just fit in there.

Anyway my intention is not to put down Lewa or Suarez - they're both brilliant strikers. But if people are gonna say lewa has been better in the CL, then fair's fair in saying Suarez has been better at international level. Even if you think Uruguay are much better than Poland (which i don't believe they were if you compare early days Suarez to much of Lewa's time with Poland, a few years later after Uruguay established themselves again then yes, I agree, even though they were technically less successful they had solidified and had a lot of good players later). Neither plays with a modern superpower nation really, though.

Anyway you have made some logical points and given me food for thought - thank you for the discussion.
 
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