André Gomes

[DonAK]

Me too. Paulinho can at least chip in now and then goals. Gomes has no finishing ability. Paulinho is more of a wildcard.

Although I will add Gomes is better positionally than Paulinho so there's that point to consider too. But I really would rather not see Gomes starting in important games, especially in the CL....

 

[God Serena]

BBZ is basically saying he'd rather have 10 men with a little boy who occasionally forgets not to pass across the face of his own goal than 11 men if Coutinho is the one replacing the boy.

 

[DonAK]

Look I understand what you're saying but if you're looking for a physical presence or a ball-winner in the midfield Gomes certainly doesn't fit that profile. He has good physical attributes but rarely have I ever seen him showcase them. Workhorses are expected to provide some control and defensive structure to the team while their techincal ability going forward isn't as important, but Gomes can do neither of these jobs which renders him useless on the pitch.

I too am not an advocate of playing Coutinho-Iniesta-Messi-Suarez-Dembele on the pitch at the same time as it would compromise our defensive shape and would lessen our control in the midfield, but relying entirely on Messi is not a good thing either. You mention how Messi alone is worth 3 players in attack and I would tend to agree, but being overly dependent on him is what has gotten us knocked out of the CL the last few seasons. Yes our defense has not helped either, but other than that fluke 6-1 we couldn't put any goals past Juve in 16-17 and were only able to score 2 goals against Atleti in 15-16. So what happens when you get so dependent on Messi is that if good teams find a way to shut him down or he's off form we'll struggle massively to score and that's why it's so important to have a few other creators on the field.

If we face a team like City or PSG in the CL they'll take Messi out of the game by putting 3 men on him and as good as our defense is they'll still find a way to put a couple goals past us considering they are two of the best attacking sides in the world. So Messi is suffocated in the midfield and we're playing elite opposition that can score, then what? We can't rely on a midfield of Iniesta-Busi-Paulinho-Rakitic so spark much offense. We'll be static and most likely lose or draw the match.

This idea of relying on Messi and Iniesta alone to generate all our attacks and defend with workhorses in midfield only works if we score first. That way the opposition opens up and we get more spaces to play off. We cannot chase a match with the midfield you desire and to win the CL you'll have to comeback from down in the tie many times. Notice when we've conceded first our record isn't all that great?

Celta in the league scored on us first, it ended 2-2
Espanyol in the Copa scored on us first, they won 1-0
Espanyol in the league scored on us first, it ended 1-1
Valencia in the league scored on us first, it ended 1-1
Atleti in the league scored on us first, it ended 1-1
We struggled to comeback against Alaves and Getafe both of which scored first on us and we barely won those matches 2-1 with late goals.

The team you dream of us playing simply cannot chase matches, it may work in the league and cup where we are much superior to most of our opposition but against clinical teams in the CL it will be tough unless we score first.

To add to that point, like I wrote in the Iniesta thread, his creative output and generally bringing the ball forward and playing those creative passes, risky passes seem to be diminishing. Whether it is his mentality to play it safer like some players tend to get when they get older, or due to the tactics, it is showing statistically and from what I've observed myself.

In the Champions League, almost every team that have won have had at least three creative/goalscoring forces. With Messi getting pushed deeper and Suarez isolated we may face a huge problem, not to forget how slow our attack can get.

In the KOs it's all about the small margins and we might have to risk some of that defensive stability for more attacking firepower. If we concede first it could become a huge problem breaking down the opposition.

 

[reaper]

The Gomes defence lawyers are in tonight! The guy is a joke.

 

[wisconsincule]

Yeah idk. I have zero confidence in him when he starts as a wide midfielder. Coutinho (who should be playing on the left) >>>>>> Gomes by a million

 

[LordLichtenstein]

I love how Messi basically ignored his ass after 20 minutes..

 

[aaron101]

He really should be sold this Summer. He isn't getting any better. He's just a waste of space here.

 

[Aryagorn]

That's just ridiculous hating on a Barca player !!

His confidence is shot that's all that's wrong with the guy !

I had high hopes for him but it's becoming apparent that he'll never be accepted here . Best moves to another , club and have a fresh start ,

And you are the guy who sought an apology from the coach, constantly, because he didn't start one of your pretty boy obsessions in his natural position!

 

[MessiCam]

I really don't like this guy... He is not Barcelona material but I can't blame him. He is being asked to play a role he is not technically suited for.

If you're going to playing him wide then you might as well play Denis or Coutinho whom both are far more suited to it.

 

[LeeRomeno]

A test for everyone:
In future matches:
1. check our possession and midfield's balance when we play with:
Iniesta-Rakitic-Busquets-Gomes/Paulinho
Against Iniesta-Coutinho-Busquets-Rakitic (or even add Dembele here, I have no idea where).

Our positional play is way better in the first scenario.
Possession is way higher.
We are dominating all over the field.
We are not prone to counters.
We can recover balls easily.

Add Coutinho/Dembele into maths, and you have a mess.
None of them has a useful position in a team for now.
Automatism is not there.
They are clashing with area of some other players.
None of them is too useful in defending. Coutinho is trying to defend, but he is miles behind Paulinho/Gomes.

I know, football is not about defending, but to some extent, we are lucky that Coutinho can't play in a CL this year (and let's hope that Dembele will be benched or he will play in the last 30-40 minutes of matches when he'll have more space).
Imo, we have way more chances to win a CL this year with a balanced (and yet ugly for some), "classical EV's" lineup with 3 workhorses and Iniesta.

We could survive in the next season with Coutinho, but only if Iniesta will be benched.
Till now, in every single match when either:
1. Dembele played
2. or Iniesta and Coutinho played together
= our team was tactically a mess, compared to a fine tuned balanced machine called Iniesta-Raki-Busi-Gomes/Paulinho.

Lol, I agree with you on balancing the squad, I just said he was absolutely awful yesterday.

 

[Much2soon]

The thing with Gomes is, the best he’s played for us has been out wide but then again he’s shit there also plus we have 6-7 players who can do the job better than him on the wing.

He plays football a bit like me, play the safe pass every time, dont look up before crossing to see other players may be in better positions, and cannot shoot or pass.

 

[Windhook]

I am defending a balance.

The Gomes "balance" theory is a myth. The guy is equally poor and ineffective both in attack and in defensive plays. It's insulting, but we are almost playing with 10 men, some of our players out there struggle hard when the Portuguese is around, especially the wingbacks. Meanwhile Andre Gomes brings balance... just because we haven't lost a game this season Gomes has featured doesn't mean he is the reason for this achievement.

Valverde has patience with the guy, I admire that and we will see Gomes in play soon. The rotation demands it.

 

[FCBfan22]

He was stopping the game numerous times yesterday. I remember quite a few times when Messi and Roberto wanted to play a fast combination, the ball ended at Gomes' feet and anything stopped for a few seconds.

 

[kollegah]

that was a first class shit show.

 

[MessiCam]

A test for everyone:
In future matches:
1. check our possession and midfield's balance when we play with:
Iniesta-Rakitic-Busquets-Gomes/Paulinho
Against Iniesta-Coutinho-Busquets-Rakitic (or even add Dembele here, I have no idea where).

Our positional play is way better in the first scenario.
Possession is way higher.
We are dominating all over the field.
We are not prone to counters.
We can recover balls easily.

Add Coutinho/Dembele into maths, and you have a mess.
None of them has a useful position in a team for now.
Automatism is not there.
They are clashing with area of some other players.
None of them is too useful in defending. Coutinho is trying to defend, but he is miles behind Paulinho/Gomes.

I know, football is not about defending, but to some extent, we are lucky that Coutinho can't play in a CL this year (and let's hope that Dembele will be benched or he will play in the last 30-40 minutes of matches when he'll have more space).
Imo, we have way more chances to win a CL this year with a balanced (and yet ugly for some), "classical EV's" lineup with 3 workhorses and Iniesta.

We could survive in the next season with Coutinho, but only if Iniesta will be benched.
Till now, in every single match when either:
1. Dembele played
2. or Iniesta and Coutinho played together
= our team was tactically a mess, compared to a fine tuned balanced machine called Iniesta-Raki-Busi-Gomes/Paulinho.

Why wait? First half stats only for uniformity and to as much as possible exclude substitions and formation switches.

Midfield of Iniesta-Busquets-Rakitic (3 man midfield) vs Espanyol - Possession 73%, Successful passes 322, Passing accuracy 87%, not prone to counters.

Midfield of Iniesta-Paulinho-Rakitic-Coutinho(Double pivot) vs Alaves - Possession 80%, Successful passes 343, Passing accuracy 87%, prone to counters (Alaves 4 clear counters in the first half alone).

Midfield of Iniesta-Busquets-Rakitic (3 man midfield) vs Valencia (First round Copa) - Possession 79%, Successful passes 381, Passing accuracy 87%, not prone to counters.

Midfield of Iniesta-Busquets-Paulinho (3 man midfield) vs Espanyol - Possession 75%, Successful passes 285, Passing accuracy 87%, not prone to counters.

Midfield of Iniesta-Busquets-Raktic-Gomes (Double pivot) vs Valencia (Second round Copa) - Possession 70%, Successful passes 365, Passing accuracy 91%, prone to counters.

The best game in terms of ball recovery was the first round against Valencia with a 3 man midfield.

Having Coutinho and Dembélé in the same 11 and maybe even Iniesta is not the problem as long as one of Messi and Suarez sit out. The problem is that Coutinho and Dembélé should not play in midfield at all let alone with a double pivot. The double pivot opens us up to counter attacks when these attacking wide players play in midfield.

The double pivot again proved to be a monumental waste last night even with 2 workhorses alongside Busquets and Iniesta because there was nothing going forward. Rakitic couldn't do his box to box thing and Gomes was way to wide to be effective plus Valencia just refused to press when the ball was played in the middle. They only pressed hard in the wide areas knowing that it opens up counters.