Cruyff-Total Football
New member
It's good to see that now it's very clear how much poor the team is. Even, I had opinion that, Messi should have won at least one of the four finals. But, not now. This team is worse than the team Maradona played for. Modern football is so tactically advanced that a single player even if they are Messi, Maradona and Di Stefano cannot change the result when the team is out of sync.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Different teams though so that is not a conclusion to draw from that Germany game.
Edit: Spain not Germany.
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Cruyff-Total Football
New member
Every team fears Messi the most. Ask Zidane who has the best squad in the world at the moment. As the likes of Costa and Ramos say, Argentina without Messi is a completely different team. France attacked Portugal when Ronaldo was there and they continued their attack when Ronaldo was not there. There is a reason why Netherlands who were capable of thrashing Spain 5-0 and Germany who won 7-1 against Brazil cannot score a single goal against Argentina in the 90 minutes. In fact, Argentina had more clear cut chances from build up play than Germany. The last time a giant team wanted to attack Messi's team is Pep's Bayern. And Messi showed what he is capable of.
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Vilarrubi
New member
JamDav1982
Senior Member
The main reason Germany and Netherland struggle to score against Argentina was the defence. Not being terrified of Messi.
Cruyff-Total Football
New member
No. Germany and Netherlands were not defended from scoring. Their focus is not scoring at all. They were focused on offense-defense balance. Juventus defended Tottenham from scoring. But Germany, was very cautious. And the same for Netherlands. They didn't attack in numbers. They can't afford to given that 4 players were allocated for Messi, 2 for man marking, 2 for intercepting the passes towards him.
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Cruyff-Total Football
New member
Even with all the so called stars psg has, Zidane attacked them in Numbers. But he can never do that against Barca.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Netherlands couldnt score vs Costa Rica and Germany were not playing overly attacking football vs likes of Algeria or France either.
Germany pumped Argentina in previous World Cup anyway. The biggest difference was the Argentina defence playing well.
Neither Germany or Netherlands ever had anything like four men allocated to Messi.
Cruyff-Total Football
New member
Attack being defended and not attacking at all are completely two different things. No defense in the history of football can defend when 7 quality attackers are running towards the goal (Pep's Barca is the exception because build up play is the only way they can score, so they can be stopped). A hypothetical instance being, Italy at their peak cannot afford to defend the Real Madrid in the last champions league final. Attack is the best defense. Mourinho, the best defensive manager in the world has had matches where he conceded 5 goals.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Netherlands and Germany did not refuse to attack.
There was a reason that by far Argentinas best player in that semi final v Netherlands was a defensive player in Masche.
As I said teams have and do attack Argentina with Messi in it - Germany at 2010 being example and difference then was the Argies defence more than anything.
Cruyff-Total Football
New member
Is the aim of this argument is to arrive at the most reasonable conclusion or defending personal likes and dislikes?
JamDav1982
Senior Member
No idea. Just giving opinion no real aim.
Cruyff-Total Football
New member
Okay. I'm not criticising anyone.
But Germany, indeed had 4 players allocated for Messi whenever Messi drifted towards the center of the pitch. You can never see the team's most important central defender covering the flanks even when they play against Hazard, Neymar and Ronaldo. But Hummels had to move wide when Messi played Right wing momentarily in the match.
Zidane, indeed gave specific training under his personal watch to Kovacic in order to stop Messi. When Messi started to play in right wing and created chances from long balls, he told Kovacic to follow messi everywhere (as per the statement from Kovacic).
Diego Costa clearly stated yesterday that their approach wouldn't be so offensive if Messi played.
Diego Simeone's statement is that "Messi is more dangerous than Bale, Benzema, Cristiano combined. It's because of the multi dimensional ability he has to effect the game.
But Germany, indeed had 4 players allocated for Messi whenever Messi drifted towards the center of the pitch. You can never see the team's most important central defender covering the flanks even when they play against Hazard, Neymar and Ronaldo. But Hummels had to move wide when Messi played Right wing momentarily in the match.
Zidane, indeed gave specific training under his personal watch to Kovacic in order to stop Messi. When Messi started to play in right wing and created chances from long balls, he told Kovacic to follow messi everywhere (as per the statement from Kovacic).
Diego Costa clearly stated yesterday that their approach wouldn't be so offensive if Messi played.
Diego Simeone's statement is that "Messi is more dangerous than Bale, Benzema, Cristiano combined. It's because of the multi dimensional ability he has to effect the game.
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