Aurelien Tchouameni

[Morten]

Word? Millions died during the illegal invasion of Iraq.

When is the U.S. going to outlaw their system of slavery?

You seem like a rabid dog when it comes to defending Qatar, i will give you for the effort, quite admirable.

 

[ajnotkeith]

We can focus on Spain too. Or the U.K., or the French, or the Portuguese, or the Dutch, etc.

Offtopic, I would also point out, whilst you make your comparisons, that whilst Western countries can be hypocritical history of human rights abuses is often documented much better in democratic systems. Free speech is heavily enforced and opponents of said abuses exercise it fully, there is massive backlash against the US imprisonment situation.

In Qatar you are censored and thrown in jail if you are critical of the government. Literature on abuses in dictatorships/repressive governments will naturally be more scarce.

 

[Jair Ventura]

Offtopic, I would also point out, whilst you make your comparisons, that whilst Western countries can be hypocritical history of human rights abuses is often documented much better in democratic systems. Free speech is heavily enforced and opponents of said abuses exercise it fully, there is massive backlash against the US imprisonment situation.

In Qatar you are censored and thrown in jail if you are critical of the government.

Idk about any Qatari citizens being jailed for criticizing their government, but I am familiar with activists the U.S. government has either incarcerated or assassinated for fighting for civil rights. See: Fred Hampton

 

[Jair Ventura]

You seem like a rabid dog when it comes to defending Qatar, i will give you for the effort, quite admirable.

The hypocrisy is glaring. This is easy.

 

[Blanco]

Modric and Kroos are gone soon, as much as we may pretend they are around forever.

Even if they are gone soon - if Tchouameni come i dont see how Perez will let the coach use his new 80-100 million player as substitution. And this will make the team explode internally. Not only Kroos and Modric, but Valverde and Camavinga have to be before any new midfielder in the pecking order. Even if there is no problem between members of the squad and the coach/president - there is the problem that Tchouameni is not on the level of our currnt midfielders, he is good, but nothing special. There is scenario where he is just on the bench and problems are solved, but then again - why to spend so much money on a player, who will create problem/be reserve.

 

[messi2140]

Every time the slavery problem of Qatar gets brought up , I keep mentioning to Morten how most of the hired construction companies are actually European and are profiting from the slavery as well (main example who is built the new Santiago Bernabeu) . As per usual though I never get an answer.


Again this is not me defending Qatar , but it's always stunning how you never hear the part that I mentioned above in the media. But hey there is no hypocrisy.

 

[El Gato]

Every time the slavery problem of Qatar gets brought up , I keep mentioning to Morten how most of the hired construction companies are actually European and are profiting from the slavery as well (main example who is built the new Santiago Bernabeu) . As per usual though I never get an answer.

Again this is not me defending Qatar , but it's always stunning how you never hear the part that I mentioned above in the media. But hey there is no hypocrisy.

While I get the point, what is the claim based on?
All I can find on FCC Construcci?n is some denouncement by World Bank
You got links?

 

[messi2140]

https://www.fccco.com/en/-/fcc-cons...tion-project-of-the-santiago-bernabeu-stadium

Here is them building the Bernabeu

and here is them building Metro's in Qatar ( they have multiple projects there)

https://www.fccco.com/en/-/fcc-cons...alizacion-de-los-trabajos-en-el-metro-de-doha

 

[El Gato]

and here is them building Metro's in Qatar ( they have multiple projects there)

https://www.fccco.com/en/-/fcc-cons...alizacion-de-los-trabajos-en-el-metro-de-doha

So how do we know who they employ on their Gulf projects?
Just an educated guess that they'll go for whoever they can nab cheaply? Or what?

 

[messi2140]

So how do we know who they employ on their Gulf projects?
Just an educated guess that they'll go for whoever they can nab cheaply? Or what?

I mean that's makes the most sense no ? Telling people to move to Qatar from Europe so they can work on multiple projects there doesn't make much sense neither will the costs for those companies.

Not to mention I remember posting an amnesty article where they actually asked construction companies to respond to what they are doing in Qatar but surprisingly most refused to comment. (Was a post in response to Morten that he ignored per usual)

Then you have articles likes these

https://www.theguardian.com/global-...ve-accused-migrant-worker-labour-abuses-qatar

 

[El Gato]

I mean that's makes the most sense no ? Hiring people from Europe makes 0 sense.

Not to mention I remember posting an amnesty article where they actually asked construction companies to respond to what they are doing in Qatar but surprisingly most refused to comment. (Was a post in response to Morten that he ignored per usual)

Then you have articles likes these

https://www.theguardian.com/global-...ve-accused-migrant-worker-labour-abuses-qatar

Perhaps too charitable but it seems rather conjectural on face of things since no reports specifically saying FCC is culpable too
Far from denying that western companies cut corners where can and not unlikely here
Just found the specific example a bit odd

 

[Jair Ventura]

Perhaps too charitable but it seems rather conjectural on face of things since no reports specifically saying FCC is culpable too
Far from denying that western companies cut corners where can and not unlikely here
Just found the specific example a bit odd

The article supports his claim that some of the construction companies exploiting labor in Qatar are multinational and/or derive from the West.

More:

Though abuses against migrant workers are rampant in the region, human rights organizations reported little on Qatar until the onset of World Cup construction. As Qatar attempted to simultaneously execute large-scale stadium construction projects, reports of labor abuses against migrant workers on these projects began to surface widely in the global media. The allegations about poor working conditions and nonpayment of workers are mostly a result of multinational construction contractors’ and subcontractors’ flagrant disregard of labor rights. There are even disputes between contractors and subcontractors over responsibility for migrant workers’ conditions. Recently, Krantz Engineering, a company subcontracted by SEG International, a Beirut-based contractor, failed to pay migrant construction workers their wages and withheld worker exit visas. Krantz blamed these abuses on SEG for withholding payments from Krantz. After being contacted by Amnesty International, SEG claimed to have opened a line of credit to Krantz to pay wages, but SEG failed to show proof of that transaction. What started as commercial dispute between two companies resulted in a situation akin to forced labor for migrant construction workers. The lack of corporate responsibility is alarming, to say the least, and highlights the corporate ethos about migrant workers’ conditions in the region.

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinio...-abusesworldcupmultinationalcorporations.html

 

[El Gato]

The article supports his claim that some of the construction companies exploiting labor in Qatar are multinational and/or derive from the West.

More:

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinio...-abusesworldcupmultinationalcorporations.html

You can shirk responsibility all you want, they are under the Qatari jurisdiction who do fuckall about it.
They're allowed to do it in places where nobody looks at their hands. Hardly rocket science.

Not to mention you've completely missed the point which was to do with a specific example of the Bernabeu construction company
Nobody denied provenance of some or all of the organisations responsible

 

[messi2140]

I think there was a reason I mentioned the FCC one a few years ago to Morten (can't remember exactly why though) and that one just stuck with me. As I said in my first post here of the page it's not only them but there are plenty (Need to find that amnesty article again. They had like a list of all the foreign construction companies that were in Qatar abusing those slaves).

 

[Laplacian]

Western companies going nuts and breaking human rights violations is certainly an issue. Especially typical amongst multinationals that are heavily regulated in their home countries, they often refocus and shift their priorities to foreign markets where regulations are much more lax.

A famous example would be the tobacco industry in third world nations. Or even companies like Nestle.

These are companies commiting unspeakable evils all over the world.

But honestly what else can we do? We regulate the shit out of them in Europe and try to keep them in check because naturally under capitalism all companies will do whatever to profit their shareholders..this is what most people in Western Europe believe.

The law restricts us from fully controlling what companies do in foreign jurisdictions. Similarly, is it really our fault that local governments in foreign nations easily fall prey to bribes and corruption so that our companies can continue to run uncheck?

Again, it is very to weird to blame us for what Qataris are allowing in their county. Different standards for us once again.

And since we're on the subject of Norway, I'm pretty sure Norways sovereign wealth funds restricts investment/ business with companies associated with human rights violations.

At the end of the day, it's not like Mortens country is involved in it anyways.