Barca Transfers and Rumors

[Barca83]

ffs with your height obsession BBZ
1. Liverpool have had the best attack in CL without a tall striker
2. Manchester City have had the best PL season ever without a tall striker
3. Bayern and PSG had tall strikers (Muller, Cavani, Lewandowski) who all flopped in CL
4. Our best run of form came this season when using 433 with Messi at false 9
5. We got humiliated in CL playing 442 with a 6 foot striker up front in Suarez
6. We used 442 with workhorses and physical players (Paulinho, Rakitic, Suarez) against Chelsea in the first leg but never looked like breaking down their bus until the mistake from Christensen
7. Madrid have only scored 3 goals from headers in 12 CL games this year, so it's not as if crossing to tall players has been their secret weapon

 

[MessiCam]

[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION], why don’t you support Madrid or Bayern? You’re obviously a fan of the way they play and clearly not a fan of the way Barça has played for at least 30 years...

 

[Joan]

ffs with your height obsession BBZ
1. Liverpool have had the best attack in CL without a tall striker
2. Manchester City have had the best PL season ever without a tall striker
3. Bayern and PSG had tall strikers (Muller, Cavani, Lewandowski) who all flopped in CL
4. Our best run of form came this season when using 433 with Messi at false 9
5. We got humiliated in CL playing 442 with a 6 foot striker up front in Suarez
6. We used 442 with workhorses and physical players (Paulinho, Rakitic, Suarez) against Chelsea in the first leg but never looked like breaking down their bus until the mistake from Christensen
7. Madrid have only scored 3 goals from headers in 12 CL games this year, so it's not as if crossing to tall players has been their secret weapon

1. Also the weakest opponents, Barca's problems have rarely had anything to do with attack (against weaker opponents or attacking teams) but rather parked buses. Watch Liverpool vs United (no real chance) or vs Chelsea lately.
2. True, Pep doesn't struggle in domestic leagues. That's never been the case, just like Barca.
3. The strikers might've flopped, that's not the point.
4. When did it happen? Our best run of form for me was in December, Paulinho behind Leo and Suarez.
5. Suarez is not good in the air anymore. Actually, one of the reasons we were humiliated was the physicality Roma had in their midfield. We couldn't breathe. Wrong tactics also, formation with no wings etc. but that's not the point.
6. To break the bus you need tactics besides players, had we crossed, it could've been better. Don't understand one thing, all of us watch Barca regularly and can see we struggle against parked buses. Why do you think short-passing is gonna change that? We'll never have players as good as in Pep's days, but even then we struggled. To be able to cross, to be able to counter doesn't have to be your plan A, but makes things easier.
7. Crossing doesn't necessarily mean heading the ball. Suarez scored after a cross in last Clasico, the first goal, Ronaldo did the same, neither scored a header. Just an example.

 

[BBZ8800]

ffs with your height obsession BBZ
1. Liverpool have had the best attack in CL without a tall striker
2. Manchester City have had the best PL season ever without a tall striker
3. Bayern and PSG had tall strikers (Muller, Cavani, Lewandowski) who all flopped in CL
4. Our best run of form came this season when using 433 with Messi at false 9
5. We got humiliated in CL playing 442 with a 6 foot striker up front in Suarez
6. We used 442 with workhorses and physical players (Paulinho, Rakitic, Suarez) against Chelsea in the first leg but never looked like breaking down their bus until the mistake from Christensen
7. Madrid have only scored 3 goals from headers in 12 CL games this year, so it's not as if crossing to tall players has been their secret weapon

1. Use a larger sample than 1 year and then check what type of teams are in finals of a Champions league
2. Don't analyze matches against Stoke and Getafe, aka league matches.
Messi alone and Pep's tactics are good enough for that.
I am talking about a CL level.
Both Barca and all Pep's team are horribly onedimensional in a Cl after 2011'

If Pep and his tactics are still awesome, why do his teams suck in a CL?
Now you'll reply: in a CL, you need a lot of luck.
Then:
Why is RM on a verge of winning 4 Cls in 5 years?

So, maybe there are ways to increase your chances and raise your "luck".
That obviously won't happen in 2019 and 2020 with Pep's outdated style (for a Cl level).

 

[JamDav1982]

BBZ you said Barca were winning the CL this year as if it was a fact and that was with a front two of Messi and Suarez.

Even in the match chat with Roma were mocking folk not happy with way Barca was playing.

Barca didnt lack height they lacked the ability to counter with pace vs Roma team playing that high line.

No parked bus stopped Barca. When Roma sat deep Barca scored 4 against them even if two were ogs.

It is when Roma played a high line or when Chelsea did it that Barca suffered as Messi and Suarez stayed up park, were no real threat in behind and dont defend.

 

[BBZ8800]

6. To break the bus you need tactics besides players, had we crossed, it could've been better. Don't understand one thing, all of us watch Barca regularly and can see we struggle against parked buses. Why do you think short-passing is gonna change that? We'll never have players as good as in Pep's days, but even then we struggled. To be able to cross, to be able to counter doesn't have to be your plan A

Thanks.
I don't get the logic of 90% of people here.
Their logic is as equally as stubborn and as flawed as Pep's logic.

So, in the last 6 out of 7 years, we didn't score A SINGLE GOAL in away matches against parked buses in key matches.
2012: Chelsea 0:1
2013: Bayern 0:4
2014: Atletico 0:1
2016: Atletico 0:2
2017: Juventus 0:3
2018: Roma 0:3

In majority of matches (except in this year), we would just pass the ball on the ground through the middle and we would have 1-2 chances per match.
We would play a possession style around the box and we couldn't break the bus with shortpasses and yet, we would concede 10s of goals on counters.

And then, instead of trying to find another attacking way against parked buses, the solution of users here is:
NO. We shouldn't change tactics.
We should just buy "better" players and play exactly the same tactics.
So, we couldn't break the bus with shortpasses with Msn, but people think that it will be better with Coutinho, Dembele and Arthur.

Pep suffers from the same disease.
When his team loses in a CL, his only idea is: we'll splash 200-300 Millions on 2 new players and he'll play exactly the same.
If he fails again, he'll repeat the same until he'll have by far the most expensive team in the world and then maybe he'll win a Cl by luck again.

So, yes, awesome way of thinking.

He/we could have just tried a plan B and we wouldn't waste 5-10 years and 1 Billions of Euros with repeating the same mistake over and over.

Also, one thing which I don't get is: people always say that 433 is our Dna etc.
But, what is Real's Dna?
They played 433, 442, 451.
They played possession, counters, crosses, set pieces, nice, ugly etc.

They don't have their Dna.
They just evolve and adapt to new eras.

Before someone says: we won more La ligas lately...
Yes, because we had Messi.
Remove him from maths, and we'll just have an outdated tactics, 3rd place in La liga and a Cl quarters.

I wonder whether people will rave about our Dna when these days will come.
Or, people will be more open to evolving.

 

[FCBfan22]

BBZ you said Barca were winning the CL this year as if it was a fact and that was with a front two of Messi and Suarez.

Even in the match chat with Roma were mocking folk not happy with way Barca was playing.

Barca didnt lack height they lacked the ability to counter with pace vs Roma team playing that high line.

No parked bus stopped Barca. When Roma sat deep Barca scored 4 against them even if two were ogs.

It is when Roma played a high line or when Chelsea did it that Barca suffered as Messi and Suarez stayed up park, were no real threat in behind and dont defend.

Exactly. That's why we need to bench Suarez and have a striker who defends. We can't afford two players walking on the pitch instead of doing defensive duties.

 

[JamDav1982]

BBZ Roma never parked the bus. They played a high line.

Almost as soon as they sat back Barca looked like scoring. Just too late.

The one thing that has hindered Barca in CL has been ability to break effectively with pace. Far more than any big target man in the box.

 

[BBZ8800]

BBZ you said Barca were winning the CL this year as if it was a fact and that was with a front two of Messi and Suarez.

Even in the match chat with Roma were mocking folk not happy with way Barca was playing.

Barca didnt lack height they lacked the ability to counter with pace vs Roma team playing that high line.

No parked bus stopped Barca. When Roma sat deep Barca scored 4 against them even if two were ogs.

It is when Roma played a high line or when Chelsea did it that Barca suffered as Messi and Suarez stayed up park, were no real threat in behind and dont defend.

Jam, I explained a few times already.
Before this season, I thought that our only problem in a Cl is a 3men midfield, lack od muscles and a bad defending.
I didn't think too much about our onedimensional attack.

So, I thought that 442, muscles ans defense alone will be enough for a Cl.

But after this season, I think that we need both muscles and defense.
But also, 2-3 attacking options like shortpasses, counters and headers.

So, under Lucho:
1. Our attack was onedimensional
2. Our midfield was weak
3. We didn't have muscles
4. Our defense was bad

This year:
1. Attack is still onedimensional
2. Midfield is average
3. We have more muscles
4. Our defense was better

So, even if you bring back Pep today:
1. Attack will be onedimensional again
2. Midfield will never reach Xavi-Iniesta level
3. We won't have muscles under Pep
4. We won't have a good defense due to 433, possession style prone to counters, weaker midfielders and a lack of muscles in 2018'.

So,in my eyes, Ev's attempt was a step in the better direction, but obviously we still have a lot of flaws.

Also, not to mention that Ev moved from his 442 with4 cms to Roberto as a winger in 2-3 weeks before Roma.

 

[MessiCam]

Jam, I explained a few times already.
Before this season, I thought that our only problem in a Cl is a 3men midfield, lack od muscles and a bad defending.
I didn't think too much about our onedimensional attack.

So, I thought that 442, muscles ans defense alone will be enough for a Cl.

But after this season, I think that we need both muscles and defense.
But also, 2-3 attacking options like shortpasses, counters and headers.

So, under Lucho:
1. Our attack was onedimensional
2. Our midfield was weak
3. We didn't have muscles
4. Our defense was bad

This year:
1. Attack is still onedimensional
2. Midfield is average
3. We have more muscles
4. Our defense was better

So, even if you bring back Pep today:
1. Attack will be onedimensional again
2. Midfield will never reach Xavi-Iniesta level
3. We won't have muscles under Pep
4. We won't have a good defense due to 433, possession style prone to counters, weaker midfielders and a lack of muscles in 2018'.

So,in my eyes, Ev's attempt was a step in the better direction, but obviously we still have a lot of flaws.

Also, not to mention that Ev moved from his 442 with4 cms to Roberto as a winger in 2-3 weeks before Roma.

Wow... Valverde's Barcelona were just as prone to counters as any Barcelona before. It was ter Stegen pulling off some miracle saves earlier that saved Valverde's blushes. When the inevitable happened and his level dropped off it was goals on counters galore. Further the notion that a 4-3-3 is defensively weaker than a 4-4-2 (especially one that maintains width) is the stuff of fantasy made up by fans of workhorses like yourself.

You also behaving as if the 4-4-2 with 4 CM's was by design. It was as a consequence of a horribly out of form Suarez and Rakitic as well as the Dembele injury. The moment Coutinho was signed and Dembele became fit you should have known that it would be the end of that.

You talk about 3 man midfields being a problem but you want us to play with 2 CM's as if it's a solution. Where is the disconnect?

 

[Barca83]

To BBZ
1. Pep had several tall strikers at Bayern (Lewandowski, Mandzukic, Muller) and they also played a lot of crosses from the wings (Costa, Alaba, Robbery). Against Atletico, they used 442 with Muller and Lewa up front, so I'm not sure why you use that as an example of why 433 possession play can't break down busses.
2. At Manchester City, neither Liverpool or Monaco beat them by parking the bus. City scored 6 against Monaco, and had two disallowed goals vs Liverpool so it was hardly a case of their attack being one dimensional. They also scored 8 goals in the two league matches against the same Liverpool team.

 

[MTL_Barca]

Play 433 with someone like Benzema/Lewandowski as a CF.
If you play 433, play Lewa, Messi, Dembele.
If you play 442, play Messi-Lewa.

In midfield, don't play Iniesta- Coutinho-Arthur-Thiago, but SOME technical guys and some workhorses, to get the balance.

That's basically it, I am asking for only 1 player (versatile Cf) and maybe one physical Cm or a Cdm.

Then, instead of playing shortpasses 99% of time, you can play:
70-80% shortpasses (and some counters)
And 20-30% crosses in RM's style.

So, I am not saying that Barca's style sucks in general.
It just needs an upgrade since we are stuck in 2011'.

But majority of fans here (and the board) see a solution in: Griezmann, Messi, Dembele and Coutinho-Arthur/Alena/Thiago-Busi.
Versatlity level 0.
One dimensional football with different (player's) names=level 20 000

Rm winning a CL in 2019=on one dollar, you'll earn 1,50 at max.
Barca winning it with this style=you'll earn 10 dollars for 1 dollar invested.

Feel free to quote me in the next May after the same outcome as in this season.

People talk about Griezmann (besides the rumors obviously) because Messi as False 9 is pretty much the only way to play a 4-3-3 with him nowadays. He doesn't play as a winger anymore when he plays there on paper so to keep anything like a 4-3-3 on the field our "old" striker/winger-hybrid + Messi + winger frontline comes to mind.

Lewandowski is basically a skinnier Suarez, he's not very fast, not very good in the air too etc so it would pretty much be the same as we have now.

Messi is the best ever but he is a bit restrictive when it comes to building a team, no matter where he plays he always drops, plays centrally, doesn't do much in defense etc and i think false 9 is the best solution to all of this because 4-2-3-1 with him as an AM is more like a 4-4-2 or 4-2-4 depending on the players on the wings so it's either the lineup we already had and that wasn't too fantastic or its ultra offensive. 4-3-3 with Messi on the wing is probably just pure theory at this point because i cant see him playing in position there.

I get where you're coming from and while i think Barca style is still the way to go it wouldn't hurt to have some taller/stronger guys but especially with the strikers there isn't really a good solution imo unless we go with some form of 4-4-2 hybrid like Real where Ronaldo plays more as a striker even when it looks like a 4-3-3 on paper but there aren't many strikers outs there that can play a role like that anyway.

Midfield is another topic, the problem for me is that our midfield play or general possession play as a team isn't good enough to "waste" a spot before we bring in "barca style" midfielders. Right now we have only Rakitic and he isn't even that fitting for that and we don't know how Cou does there so i thinks its logical people talk so much about Arthur, want Thiago back etc. In theory we should have both, a taller/stronger striker and at least one more physical midfielder, with both having decent ball control of course. But before we work on plan B i would work on plan A.

Something like this would be absolutely perfect imo:

*Griezmann*, Messi, Dembele, *real Nr 9*
Coutinho (also LW), *Thiago*, Arthur, Alena, *physical CM*
Busquets, *physical DM*

But if course that's too good to be true, especially if we talk about quality players here as options.

 

[Kul_z]

BBZ i dont want to quote something particularly, but i understand what are you saying or trying to prove. And for me is no, still. Im(we) not stuck in 2011, im just a fan of style we had, and we lost it in process. Msn was spectacular, but not affordable and unsustainable because 3 kante's wouldn't be enough to cover the holes they left behind(im aware of that) especially with ney evolving into the top 3 and ego that followed. I kinda agree with you on some things, we need muscles and workhorses, but not those we have right now, so you adapt. We dont need lewandowski, we have suarez(he is not in form, but have in mind sanchez or ibrahimovic, im pretty sure that barca is a final stage and all of your flaws comes to light, and im pretty sure lewa would be a flop). Only player i would like to bring in attack, but only for plan b is mandzukic. He is tall, he has that fighting spirit, one of the best in the air and tracks back like a hungry dog. With that i agree. Player like him would be a great add-on and would bring something new in our game. In the middle id like to have more technical(hungry) players, and im quite sure we could sacrifice first half of a season for roberto, alena, denis, or some other youth prospects to gain playing time, confidence and experience..
Of course posession game, because our best player thrives in that system. Whats the point in having the goat if no one can deliver him the ball in the final third? Actually i was kinda surprised with this season because he stepped up, and for me this was his best season he played for us by a margin. Conclusion, excuse me for being romantic and i know that in this modern football only results and stats count, but i became a barca fan because of that beautiful football not because of the result. My brother is a real madrid fan, and when we watch games his satisfaction during the games is only when marcelo and isco do their thing(he cant get over zidane(player) and i understand that) Its ok to win, but satisfaction is not complete like he said, and he admitted, he envy that barca style with short passing and the amount of beautiful football we can produce in only one game and those healthy wins(ev fuck off). In the end, im just a spectator and i want to be entartained, and barca is that no matter what. Im not mad if we dont have plan b against parked buses, im more mad at the tactics other teams decide to put against us because they are not playing, they are suffering. Sorry for the long post, but thats what i think and feel, i could be wrong, but i used to enjoy drinking beer and watching barca play. Because it was spectacular

 

[BerkeleyBernie]

What about a 4231 more like Spain? Messi is always going to play in the hole and it's better with a striker in front of him.

Striker
Coutinho - Messi - Dembele
Fast DM - Busquets
Back Four

 

[Joan]

https://youtu.be/QQUkZluKHC4

30m clause, 22 years old and 189 cm tall.

Why wouldn't we get this guy?