Basketball/NBA

[Temptation]

I don't think his peak level and mentality quite reaches MJ's 1987-1998 level, but it will be interesting to see where the debate ends up if he carries on for a few more years and has like 42-45K points, and ends up top 4 in assists.

By that token you can also call Federer the GOAT above Nole. Bias.

 

[khaled_a_d]

LBJ's longevity and level in year 20 is absolutely out of this world

How is he averaging 30 at 38

I mean it seems the case of this generation of elite athletes.
Messi & CR7 for example has/had elite longevity for their sport. Federer and Novak too afaik (don't follow Tennis), Hamilton in racing, Brady in NFL. I think even M.Philips and Bolt did well at older age for their sports. Could be wrong about couple of those.
Sport science and the almost infinite resources they have changed those half life of the top athletes.

The "getting old " man in me wants to say that they hit the perfect luck with development in sport science and being raised in pre-social media times. But honestly I expect the next legends to do the same.
Won't be surprised if Giannis is still elite somehow at 40, or Mbappe lasting as long as Messi/CR7 etc

 

[KingLeo10]

By that token you can also call Federer the GOAT above Nole. Bias.

Nole owned Fed H2H though and has better statistics in every category (Slams, Masters, # weeks at no.1, year end no.1 etc.)

Lebron and MJ never played H2H and MJ has quite a few statistics in his favor (MVPs, trophies, finals MVPs, scoring average, scoring titles etc.)

You can make a case for Fed as tennis GOAT but it's not a very convincing one right now, and mostly based on aesthetics and his influence on the sport...and not actual sporting achievements.

 

[Temptation]

LeBron is a more complete player than Jordan.


Edit: I'm not a Basketball fan at all but that's the impression I got watching their games.

 

[Windhook]

LeBron is a more complete player than Jordan.


Edit: I'm not a Basketball fan at all but that's the impression I got watching their games.

No, LeBron is not more complete. He's not committed much to defending, but one might be fooled by the highlights, the legendary block on Andre Iguodala in the 2016 final game. Never won Defensive player of the year and has the same blocks as Jordan despite his bigger frame - 0.8 per game.

 

[khaled_a_d]

No, LeBron is not more complete. He's not committed much to defending, but one might be fooled by the highlights, the legendary block on Andre Iguodala in the 2016 final game. Never won Defensive player of the year and has the same blocks as Jordan despite his bigger frame - 0.8 per game.

Only at later age he wasn't committed to defence.

Lebron has 6 NBA defensive team of the year, and during his 19 seasons 4 times only the DPOY wasn't big man, that includes Ron Artest durin Lebron rookie year, and Narcus Smart in his 19th year.
Lebron simply had very little chance to win in this era due to bias toward big men during his prime years. It took a transcendent defensive wing like Kawhi to change that.
Lebron is better passer, rebounder, shooter, more durability, better leader and role model to his teammates tbh.
MJ was more killer tbf.
It is tough to compare both tbh, different eras and NBA has changed massively since Lebron first few years, never m8nd the 90's.

 

[Windhook]

Only at later age he wasn't committed to defence.

Lebron has 6 NBA defensive team of the year, and during his 19 seasons 4 times only the DPOY wasn't big man, that includes Ron Artest durin Lebron rookie year, and Narcus Smart in his 19th year.
Lebron simply had very little chance to win in this era due to bias toward big men during his prime years. It took a transcendent defensive wing like Kawhi to change that.
Lebron is better passer, rebounder, shooter, more durability, better leader and role model to his teammates tbh.
MJ was more killer tbf.
It is tough to compare both tbh, different eras and NBA has changed massively since Lebron first few years, never m8nd the 90's.

Some folks overlook MJ's defensive side. You wouldn't want to be inside/near the paint with MJ sniffing around. Karl Malone knows it well.

Speaking of which... some great footage.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Some folks overlook MJ's defensive side. You wouldn't want to be inside/near the paint with MJ sniffing around. Karl Malone knows it well.

Speaking of which... some great footage.

Defense in that era allowed hand check role, and players were discouraged from shoots 3's.
I am not taking anything from him, I am just saying that the difference is overstated to say at least.

 

[Windhook]

Defense in that era allowed hand check role, and players were discouraged from shoots 3's.
I am not taking anything from him, I am just saying that the difference is overstated to say at least.

Yeah, I know. It wasn't a reply to you actually.

The removal of hand check rule made scoring and build up plays easier, more points, bigger TV ratings and so on. What can you do...

 

[snowy]

game also gone soft. getting bodychecked at customs in Chigaco n u end up in Detroit

James may win the stats but he lacks MJ's aura

 

[Mitchell1978]

James may win the stats but he lacks MJ's aura

cumulative stats only though

The advanced stats say that MJ was a better player at his peak off course Lebron has a way longer prime.
Comes down to what you find more important.

Also the NBA has never been easier to score in then right now, 5/6 players averaging more then 30 points per game, don't know if that has ever happened before.
So somehwat easier to maintain scoring averages for older players, off course what Lebron is doing at age 38 is impressive.

 

[snowy]

cumulative stats only though

The advanced stats say that MJ was a better player at his peak off course Lebron has a way longer prime.
Comes down to what you find more important.

Also the NBA has never been easier to score in then right now, 5/6 players averaging more then 30 points per game, don't know if that has ever happened before.
So somehwat easier to maintain scoring averages for older players, off course what Lebron is doing at age 38 is impressive.

U bet! game gone so soft it's like comparing Bob Sapp to Iron Mike

this breakdown kills it:

rules have changed so much it's not even the same game, BJ still gets point for his stats but can't compare to kareem's era:

if played today, Airness would levitate no contest over evry1 and break all records

To each their own but for All Time style n pezzaz, my top 2 gotta be

Black Jesus & his Apostle Kobe​

then comes

Wilt for the dominance
Kareem for the Unstoppable shot
Magic for d 360 vision
Shak Attack ? just cuz
Birdy cuz he's d Forum's favorite
Reggie for the flash trash talk

and way off in the distance ?. TikTok LeClown tootin his own horn on ESPN+ #nohatin #okalil'bit

 

[CatalinR10]

3 years without the Goat.

 

[Windhook]

LeBron James is just 63 points behind the all-time record of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Interestingly it took them both 20 years in NBA to reach 38 000+ points.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Kyrie to Dallas.
Is he going to destroy another franchise?