Best position for Messi

[instinct]

In principle it's like my suggestion with the difference that Messi drops a bit deeper than Agüero (in my formation it'd be Neymar and Higuain would be Agüero or Suarez)

 

[Sumlit]

Here's where Messi plays for Arg. Looks like a diamond 442 in this pic.

Yup, and there you see the space Aguero and Higuain create for Messi by just being there. The back 4 have to account for them, all the sudden it's no longer Messi vs 4 players, but Messi 1 on 1 vs just a midfielder.

 

[serghei]

In principle it's like my suggestion with the difference that Messi drops a bit deeper than Agüero (in my formation it'd be Neymar and Higuain would be Agüero or Suarez)

Your formation is with 1 ST and 2 CAMs. The Argentina picture is with 1CAM and 2STs -- one more advanced (Higuain) than the other (Aguero).

 

[serghei]

Yup, and there you see the space Aguero and Higuain create for Messi by just being there. The back 4 have to account for them, all the sudden it's no longer Messi vs 4 players, but Messi 1 on 1 vs just a midfielder.

Yep, seems like Arg. plays very much through the middle, and less on the wings.

How about Messi as Higuain, Neymar as Aguero and Iniesta as Messi for Barcelona?

 

[Sumlit]

Your formation is with 1 ST and 2 CAMs. The Argentina picture is with 1CAM and 2STs -- one more advanced (Higuain) than the other (Aguero).

Yes, and with Argentina Higuain is the more fixed ST, Aguero moves around the front line and interchanges with Messi a lot.

BTW, Higuain is another good choice for Barcelona. Less mobile and dynamic than Aguero and Suarez, but still very talented and very much capable of hurting you from the wing.

 

[instinct]

Your formation is with 1 ST and 2 CAMs. The Argentina picture is with 1CAM and 2STs -- one more advanced (Higuain) than the other (Aguero).

Agüero's position in your picture comes close to Neymar's in mine. It can be interpreted in 2 different ways, so it's not worth discussing. But without a doubt it's similar.

In general my intention is to keep Messi away from the opponent's wall to give him the freedom he needs. Like Sumlit said, flexibility is the most important aspect of our attack. With Neymar AND Messi behind a striker who is capable of rotating positions and capable of solving problems in tight areas with technique I think we would be much less predictable than we are now. The wings should only be used in specific situations IMO.

 

[JamDav1982]

Yup, and there you see the space Aguero and Higuain create for Messi by just being there. The back 4 have to account for them, all the sudden it's no longer Messi vs 4 players, but Messi 1 on 1 vs just a midfielder.

Argentina play a totally different system and all four attackers look to break as soon as they get the ball with all four taking off as fast as they can at the opposition defence. There is not as much shape as Messi behind two attacking players as shown there.

Also Messi, Higuain and Aguero dont do that much pressing and leave majority of defending to the six defensive players and to an extent Di Maria.

It is a totally different system that will never be used at Barca so not really evidence of how much more space Messi gets with a striker on front of him.

 

[serghei]

Agüero's position in your picture comes close to Neymar's in mine. It can be interpreted in 2 different ways, so it's not worth discussing. But without a doubt it's similar.

Yea, but the arrow suggests he is more like a 2nd striker.

 

[Sumlit]

Yep, seems like Arg. plays very much through the middle, and less on the wings.

How about Messi as Higuain, Neymar as Aguero and Iniesta as Messi for Barcelona?

It's not a bad suggestion, though the player taking the di Maria role has to be a good scoring threat because you'd be losing scoring by plating Iniesta in the Messi role.

I think keeping Iniesta in the midfield and just getting another scorer is the superior choice, the team needs more scoring, though your suggestion can be another alternative depending on the situations. Perhaps Rafinha in the di Maria role?

 

[Sumlit]

Argentina play a totally different system and all four attackers look to break as soon as they get the ball with all four taking off as fast as they can at the opposition defence. There is not as much shape as Messi behind two attacking players as shown there.

Also Messi, Higuain and Aguero dont do that much pressing and leave majority of defending to the six defensive players and to an extent Di Maria.

It is a totally different system that will never be used at Barca so not really evidence of how much more space Messi gets with a striker on front of him.

I disagree. Argentina's system is more direct and less dependent on ball possession, but it is not "completely different" to what Barca play. They still try to pass around, they still try to over-possess the opponent, they still play through the middle.

Argentina's current system is more similar to Barcelona's than it is to Real Madrid's.

 

[serghei]

I disagree. Argentina's system is more direct and less dependent on ball possession, but it is not "completely different" to what Barca play. They still try to pass around, they still try to over-possess the opponent, they still play through the middle.

Argentina's current system is more similar to Barcelona's than it is to Real Madrid's.

I've watched them vs Romania, and I swear it was like watching Barca at times, except Aguero and Higuain acted more in the center, leaving the space on the wings to be used more by the fullbacks.

We try to have width by playing like we do now, but all we do actually, is isolate our player from one another in different parts of the field.

 

[JamDav1982]

I disagree. Argentina's system is more direct and less dependent on ball possession, but it is not "completely different" to what Barca play. They still try to pass around, they still try to over-possess the opponent, they still play through the middle.

Argentina's current system is more similar to Barcelona's than it is to Real Madrid's.

Not from what I have seen, they look to break as soon as possible and leave that to the four attacking players. They dont look to dominate the ball for he most part.

Could not disgaree more about the Argentina system being more similar to Barcelonas. There was even suggestions that Real were copying how Argentina play earlier in season!! Hence why they were playing in the role he does for Argentina.

The current Argentina set up much more like Real than Barca for me.

 

[serghei]

The current Argentina set up much more like Real than Barca for me.

I think they can and they do play like both Real and Barca depending on who they face. They had like 70% of the ball against Romania, and they struggled just like we struggle against parked buses, except they didn't do the crossing thing, but, instead, they tried to break through the middle. Remember that in the first part of the season, and especially the 2nd half with Madrid (2-1) we ourselves played like Madrid, waiting and hiting on the counter. And Madrid was a bit like us in that 2nd half -- playing positional attack and high defence line. I think it's time to experiment a little and change our style. Not totally, but enough for us to be more unpredictable.

Tata wan't allowed to change what he wanted to change.

 

[Sumlit]

Not from what I have seen, they look to break as soon as possible and leave that to the four attacking players. They dont look to dominate the ball for he most part.

Could not disgaree more about the Argentina system being more similar to Barcelonas. There was even suggestions that Real were copying how Argentina play earlier in season!! Hence why they were playing in the role he does for Argentina.

The current Argentina set up much more like Real than Barca for me.

I don't think you've seen them much then. Argentina is not a counter attacking team. They exploit the counter, how could they not with the wealth of offensive players they have, but they want to have the ball and want to pass around and make quick passing sequences.
Messi is Argentina's linchpin and conductor, by virtue of that, he gravitates the play of the team to a Barcelona style. He wants the team to have the ball. He wants to associate with Gago and di Maria in the midfield.

Obviously, they are not exactly like Barca. They don't control the ball as well because their midfield is not as dominant. They also don't press from the wings and employ long balls more than Barca.

However they do not play from the wings like Madrid but from the middle like Barca. Argentina's play is similar to a Barcelona of the first year of Pep, when tiki-taka wasn't still at its peak, and the team played much more direct.

 

[JamDav1982]

I think they can and the do play like both Real and Barca depending on who they play against. They had like 70% of the ball against Romania, and they struggled just like we struggle against parked buses, except they didn't do the crossing thing, but, instead, they tried to break through the middle. Remember that in the first part of the season, and especially the 2nd half with Madrid (2-1) we ourselves played like Madrid, waiting and hiting on the counter. And Madrid was a bit like us in that 2nd half -- playing positional attack and high defence line. I think it's time to experiment a little and change our style. Not totally, but enough for us to be more unpredictable.

They had 60% posession against a Romania side that gave up the ball and dropped deep largely.

Real Madrid regularly have 60% and more against teams yet their main style is to hit teams on break.

Argentina dont look to build slowly their first thought is to break as quickly as possible and they have almost two distinct groups of attacking and defensive players. Much more so than at Barca.