Cesc Fàbregas

[Youngie]

How about the 2 goals he scored against Milan? Or the one he scored against PSG? Or the goal he set up in the second leg?

Obviously Messi scored vs tough opposition but (as Indignado hints at) there are times when he can't score in the CL against certain teams (like Chelsea). Anyway how is Messi scoring 40+ goals in La Liga vs "weak teams" any different to Cesc scoring and/or assisting vs "weak" La Liga teams? It doesn't make sense and is just an excuse.

 

[spark]

Obviously Messi scored vs tough opposition but (as Indignado hints at) there are times when he can't score in the CL against certain teams (like Chelsea). Anyway how is Messi scoring 40+ goals in La Liga vs "weak teams" any different to Cesc scoring and/or assisting vs "weak" La Liga teams? It doesn't make sense and is just an excuse.

Im not Indignaldo but Id wager he was being ironic and not supporting that argument at all.

 

[Youngie]

Whatever. There is no argument: Messi scoring in La Liga and Cesc scoring in La Liga is the same thing. They're either "weak teams" or not. I'm going back to DavidVillano1's post "Cesc has upped his stats in two games this season against two of the poorest teams in the league which make his return over the season look better than what it actually is." Same goes for Messi then. And no one is saying Messi is poor...

 

[Irish_Cules]

Whatever. There is no argument: Messi scoring in La Liga and Cesc scoring in La Liga is the same thing. They're either "weak teams" or not. I'm going back to DavidVillano1's post "Cesc has upped his stats in two games this season against two of the poorest teams in the league which make his return over the season look better than what it actually is." Same goes for Messi then. And no one is saying Messi is poor...

I think Messi upped his stats by scoring against every single team in La Liga in succession, not a couple of games against weak teams.

We have seen two Cesc's once again this season; the assist/goals monster from the first half of the season and the sloppier/quieter Cesc from the second half of the season. All Cesc needs to do is become more consistent and he will be an absolute beast. I think we can only truly judge him once Xavi retires and he is given more responsibility and playing time within the team. He wont play the same style as Xavi (there's no point in trying to mould other players to do this if it isn't their natural game) but hopefully he can play the midfield in his own effective way which compliments the team.

 

[Elite-BkD]

Whatever. There is no argument: Messi scoring in La Liga and Cesc scoring in La Liga is the same thing. They're either "weak teams" or not. I'm going back to DavidVillano1's post "Cesc has upped his stats in two games this season against two of the poorest teams in the league which make his return over the season look better than what it actually is." Same goes for Messi then. And no one is saying Messi is poor...

Cesc improves his average (goals/assists per game) against weak teams, Messi more or less maintains his average (ie he similarly pads his stats against moderate/strong teams whereas Cesc does not) - think that's the point that was being made there.

 

[dmode]

Fact is good players may produce bad stats, but bad players rarely produce good stats consistently year over year. Cesc has been top 3 assist provider in EPL, Euros, WC, and now La Liga. He has done it ever since he was a starter, every year. That is truly special.

 

[Robbie]

It's hard to explain... his stats are as good as they've ever been (if not better), but he doesn't shine like he used to. The massive presences of Xavi, Iniesta, and Messi have shunted him into the background -- even though he was obviously signed to eventually be a starter. I dunno, maybe as he's given more responsibility we'll start seeing consistency. Right now, he's the Jon O'Shea of Barcelona -- a utility man who fills in for injured stars. Maybe he doesn't feel like he's "needed" and is acting like the luxury signing that he is?

 

[Ketoth]

Fact is good players may produce bad stats, but bad players rarely produce good stats consistently year over year. Cesc has been top 3 assist provider in EPL, Euros, WC, and now La Liga. He has done it ever since he was a starter, every year. That is truly special.

Exactly. His stats say he's the best midfielder in the world but people refuse to accept it.

 

[Besiktas]

Exactly. His stats say he's the best midfielder in the world but people refuse to accept it.

Fabregas and the best midfielder in the world

Here is the truth Fabregas and a big match bench warmer. Welcome to the real world.

 

[Cule4life]

Fabregas and the best midfielder in the world

Here is the truth Fabregas and a big match bench warmer. Welcome to the real world.

Dont fall into the Ketoth trap dude. The FabreGOAT love is too strong with this one

 

[Flavia]

Exactly. His stats say he's the best midfielder in the world but people refuse to accept it.

Because stats are not everything to determine if a player is the best. Cesc is way behind a lot of midfielders. He is good, but not as good as you'd like him to be.

 

[Cule4life]

One only has to see the drop in the sharpness of our tiki taka when Cesc is on the pitch to see how far is he behind Xavi and Iniesta. Our buildup is much slower and there are a lot more misplaced passes and cheap giveaways when Cesc is on the field and Cesc is the biggest culprit. Racking up hat tricks vs Mallorca distorts the stats. Cesc still cant read and control a game like our holy trinity.

 

[Kerrybai]

Exactly. His stats say he's the best midfielder in the world but people refuse to accept it.

I realise I should have never responded to you in the first place but consider this. I already mentioned 2 EPL midfielders to you of the last generation, Patrick Viera and Roy Keane. Viera never had great stats but many Arsenak fans would rank him alongside Fabregas as one of Arsenals best. The same goes for Keane, many United fans rank him as one of their greatest ever players despite not having great stats. Stats are not always a good representation of midfielders. Having said that Cescs stats do reiterate just how good he is and I would certainly but him in the top 5 in the world, but not at number 1.

 

[Ketoth]

Stats are the best way to get a representation and ability measurement of players. What other way is there?

There's no viable way to judge players by watching them play football because everybody has their own opinion. Some say Messi is the best footballer, others say Ronaldo. The only way to settle the debate is to use stats and therefore Messi wins.

Why can't it be the same with midfielders?
Xavi has a big reputation (I'll keep my opinion to myself), Iniesta is an amazing player, he also has good stats. Fabregas is an amazing player with amazing stats (stats throughout respective careers, not just this season).

 

[Flavia]

Stats are the best way to get a representation and ability measurement of players. What other way is there?

There's no viable way to judge players by watching them play football because everybody has their own opinion. Some say Messi is the best footballer, others say Ronaldo. The only way to settle the debate is to use stats and therefore Messi wins.

Why can't it be the same with midfielders?
Xavi has a big reputation (I'll keep my opinion to myself), Iniesta is an amazing player, he also has good stats. Fabregas is an amazing player with amazing stats (stats throughout respective careers, not just this season).

Nope, this is completely wrong. By watching players you can see what they're capable of. Anyone with no bias and a brain, by watching both Messi and cr play, can see Messi is better. No need to see stats for that. With midfielders this is even more important. Stats are just the tip of an iceberg in order to judge a player. Don't fool yourself just to try to make cesc look better.