Champions League 12/13

[Malappapper]

You can add, assist for Pedro and an assist for Xavi. That is more than decent, even for Messi against a big club. Unless you are comparing yourselves to Almeria.

As for United goalthreats. They are van Persie and Rooney. Nobody else.

As for our goal threats. Well make that singular, goal threat. We only have Messi as a consistent scorer of goals. Ultra-consistent perhaps I should say.

 

[Ode to Django]

You can add, assist for Pedro and an assist for Xavi. That is more than decent, even for Messi against a big club. Unless you are comparing yourselves to Almeria.

As for United goalthreats. They are van Persie and Rooney. Nobody else.

As for our goal threats. Well make that singular, goal threat. We only have Messi as a consistent scorer of goals. Ultra-consistent perhaps I should say.

I should've said 'did a very good job on him' although i'm not counting the assist to Iniesta because it's lucky the ball rebounded off 2 Milan players into the path of Iniesta, hardly a moment of Messi genius there.

Well Messi is the only single threat nowadays because everything goes through him & it's become a 1 man team. Part of the reason watching Barcelona is a big turn off for me the past season or so.

 

[Malappapper]

I should've said 'did a very good job on him' although i'm not counting the assist to Iniesta because it's lucky the ball rebounded off 2 Milan players into the path of Iniesta, hardly a moment of Messi genius there.

Well Messi is the only single threat nowadays because everything goes through him & it's become a 1 man team. Part of the reason watching Barcelona is a big turn off for me the past season or so.

Not everything goes through Messi, you obviously don't watch Barcelona very much, because the number of clear-cut chances spurned in the past 2 years by the likes of Villa, Pedro, Alexis and co. has been colossal.

 

[Ode to Django]

Not everything goes through Messi, you obviously don't watch Barcelona very much, because the number of clear-cut chances spurned in the past 2 years by the likes of Villa, Pedro, Alexis and co. has been colossal.

Messi is involved in every single goal Bareclona makes/scores because everything flows through him, he's the only guy with freedom on the pitch & i believe the coach has instructed the guys playing on the wings to not take on there man and/or lose possesion, i also think it's the reason Xavi has become alot more conservative under instruction, Messi is the only one with a free role on the Barcelona team & it's essentially all about him really.

That's my take anyway, a few seasons ago it was a great team effort & now it's all about one guy.

 

[La Furia]

Messi is involved in every single goal Bareclona makes/scores because everything flows through him, he's the only guy with freedom on the pitch & i believe the coach has instructed the guys playing on the wings to not take on there man and/or lose possesion, i also think it's the reason Xavi has become alot more conservative under instruction, Messi is the only one with a free role on the Barcelona team & it's essentially all about him really.

That's my take anyway, a few seasons ago it was a great team effort & now it's all about one guy.

I agree completely.

 

[footyfan]

The longer he keeps producing like this, the longer this trend will continue. Finally, when he has a bad game, Barca will look lost. Only Cesc, Villa and Sanchez can change that imo.

They are still enjoyable to watch for me. The passing, the combinations, the movement, Busi and Iniesta being awesome - most of it is still there. I'm only worried about them winning the "big ears".

 

[Malappapper]

Do you people ever watch Barca?

Alexis/Villa/Pedro have tried countless times to take on their man, and 99% of the time they fail. It is very simple, they are bad dribblers. One good defender can take care of them. In the Supercup Cam Nou Classico, Alexis was one on one with Coentrao at least 5 times, not once did he manage to beat him. Lots of times Alexis/Pedro are in a goalscoring position, usually they waste the chance. Alexis, even when in good position to shoot, is reluctant to do so, and when he does, he doesn't score. Of course when Iniesta/Cesc has Messi and Alexis within passing distance, they will prefer Messi, as would I, due to the simple fact that Messi has a vastly higher probability of turning that pass into a goal or assist. ALexis and Pedro are failing the team, not the other way round. Messi is too good, they are no more than decent. I hope something happens quickly, and turn me into a fool, but it seems ever unlikelier.

A few seasons ago, it was a great team effort, because Eto'o and Henry were scoring a good % of the chances created by Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and Alves. Pedro and Alexis are lesser players than Eto'o and Henry I'm afraid.

As for Xavi, people have to realize that he is approaching 33. He is not as athletic or as potent as when he was 28 in 2008/09 (his best year for me, along with maybe 2010) He has less energy now, and therefore is more difficult for him to approach the opposing box, and provide the killer pass etc...

People who say these things are in my mind excessively protective of Pedro (because he is a hard-working canterano) and also very protective of Alexis who is also a very nice bloke with all the good intentions in the world, but are do far falling short. Another category of people that ascribe to you theory, are those that do not want to admit the full extent of Messi's magnificence, and are trying to say that he scores so unbelievably much because Barca are designed solely for that purpose.

My word fellow Cules, if we were to miss Messi even for a few games, then you would see how hopeless our attack would be. I hope that never comes to be.

 

[Malappapper]

The longer he keeps producing like this, the longer this trend will continue. Finally, when he has a bad game, Barca will look lost. Only Cesc, Villa and Sanchez can change that imo.

They are still enjoyable to watch for me. The passing, the combinations, the movement, Busi and Iniesta being awesome - most of it is still there. I'm only worried about them winning the "big ears".

It's not so much about Messi having a bad game. It's more to do with teams being able to divert 90% of their defensive power against him. In the Stamford Bridge game, there were 3 players surrounding him at all times when he entered the Chelsea half, and another 4 behind them waiting in case he gets through the first 3. That is our future if we cannot find a forward that opposing teams will be scared shitless of.

 

[Ode to Django]

Do you people ever watch Barca?

Alexis/Villa/Pedro have tried countless times to take on their man, and 99% of the time they fail. It is very simple, they are bad dribblers. One good defender can take care of them. In the Supercup Cam Nou Classico, Alexis was one on one with Coentrao at least 5 times, not once did he manage to beat him. Lots of times Alexis/Pedro are in a goalscoring position, usually they waste the chance. Alexis, even when in good position to shoot, is reluctant to do so, and when he does, he doesn't score. Of course when Iniesta/Cesc has Messi and Alexis within passing distance, they will prefer Messi, as would I, due to the simple fact that Messi has a vastly higher probability of turning that pass into a goal or assist. ALexis and Pedro are failing the team, not the other way round. Messi is too good, they are no more than decent. I hope something happens quickly, and turn me into a fool, but it seems ever unlikelier.

A few seasons ago, it was a great team effort, because Eto'o and Henry were scoring a good % of the chances created by Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and Alves. Pedro and Alexis are lesser players than Eto'o and Henry I'm afraid.

As for Xavi, people have to realize that he is approaching 33. He is not as athletic or as potent as when he was 28 in 2008/09 (his best year for me, along with maybe 2010) He has less energy now, and therefore is more difficult for him to approach the opposing box, and provide the killer pass etc...

People who say these things are in my mind excessively protective of Pedro (because he is a hard-working canterano) and also very protective of Alexis who is also a very nice bloke with all the good intentions in the world, but are do far falling short. Another category of people that ascribe to you theory, are those that do not want to admit the full extent of Messi's magnificence, and are trying to say that he scores so unbelievably much because Barca are designed solely for that purpose.

My word fellow Cules, if we were to miss Messi even for a few games, then you would see how hopeless our attack would be. I hope that never comes to be.

I watched Alexis with Udinese alot & he had phenomenal dribbling ability drifting past 2-3 players with ease, you don't just lose that i'm afraid, he isn't been given the freedom, he's there to stretch the play & give Messi as much freedom in the middle as possible, likewise he's still great with Chile. Alexis would always take on his man but now it seems he's afraid to lose the ball & takes the safe option.

When Eto'o & Henry were around Messi played on the wing & it was alot more balanced/team effort with everybody chipping in goals & it was a joy to watch, there is no way that will happen again as Messi wont be moved back to the wing because he wants to score goals. He strikes me as a very jealous type with a big ego as much as he likes to hide it, he likes the spotlight no question.

There is no way i'm buying that Xavi is slowing down at 33 he's one of the fittest out there who constantly covers the most ground without breaking a sweat, a great proffesional, the problem is there are no forward runs & the play is extremely narrow with no proper CF & Messi dropping almost as deep as him to collect the ball, what's he supposed to do? Reminds me of Pirlo in his last few years at Milan when Ronaldinho came & was a ball hog & demanded it, swiftly after Ibrahimovic, not allowing the team to be built round him rather a forward, always performed for Italy & with his move to Juventus, well look at him now.

Everything right now in this Barcelona side is to get the best out of Messi & get him goals. hence why it's a one man team, everything has to go through him.

Buy hey if it wins you games then why the hell not! but not for me, it hurts my eyes.

 

[Ursegor]

Everything right now in this Barcelona side is to get the best out of Messi & get him goals. hence why it's a one man team, everything has to go through him.

Couldn't agree more. You just need to look at these stats:

Shots taken per game:

Barca:

Messi: 5.3
Villa: 0.8
Pedro: 1.6
Alexis: 0.8

Bayern:

Robben: 3.2
Ribery: 3.1
Müller: 3.1
Mandzukic: 2.9

Juventus:

Giovinco: 3.2
Quagliarella: 3.2
Vucinic: 2.8
Marchisio: 2.5

Dortmund:

Lewandowski: 2.9
Reus: 2.6
Kuba: 1.9
Götze: 1.6


Barca have an extremely unbalanced attack which is exclusively designed to maximize Messi's goal tally. Pedro, Villa and Alexis most of the time don't even get into goalscoring positions (if they do they have to spot Messi first anyway). Pedro does take the most shots after Messi in the whole squad: only 1.6 per game. Even if he had the conversion rate of Messi (30 %), the maximum he could ever reach in a season this way would be 38 * 1.6 * 0.3 = 18 goals. That's IF he had the conversion rate of Messi (which he doesn't). Needless to say that this also kills the confidence of every forward playing alongside Messi when they aren't constantly getting into goalscoring positions. We play Iniesta out wide while Spain's all-time goalscorer is sitting on the bench. It's quite obvious that the system isn't desined to share goals between the 3 forwards but to only get the best ouf of one.

It will be a problem again in the CL knockout rounds. Better teams than Levante or Deportivo will effectively mark Messi away from goal as was the case last season against Real Madrid, Milan and Chelsea which will kill Barcelona's whole attack. But it's ok. The Gerd Müller record is also a trophy.

 

[Malappapper]

Where did you find those statistics?

And why don't they shoot more? I don't think that it's because Tito won't allow them. It's because they are doing a poor job. Remember Alexis early chance against Celtic? Or his chance against Milan? Or the one against Betis? I don't think nobody told him not to shoot on those occasions.

 

[footyfan]

Those stats "could" be biased. Do they consider that Villa/Alexis play less than the full 90 minutes, usually only 2/3rds of the match? None of the other teams have anyone who is close to the abilities of Messi. The only team who can say that is Real Madrid, where Ronaldo has 3 times the shots of the next highest, which is similar to what we have at Barca.

Also, it doesn't just have to be the wingers who get into goal-scoring positions. The midfielders can easily do that job. Hence Tito's insistence on playing Cesc. Cesc, Xavi and Iniesta all have similar shots per game ratios as Pedro at around 1.5. Which is not too bad considering that Barca are not a team who take too many shots anyway.

The wingers need to attack their man more.

 

[Ursegor]

Real Madrid have the same problem, it's true. That's why Higuain and Ronaldo can't play together. Higuain, like Villa, is a predator who first looks for goal and then for Ronaldo. That's why he doesn't play as much as Benzema, despite having the best goal to game ratio in Europe (without penalties he's scoring as many goals as Ronaldo). Same reason why Alexis plays ahead of Villa. Alexis got the memo and adapted the Dani Alves syndrom of only looking for Messi. That chest lay-off to Messi against Mallorca was ridiculous when he was just 3 yards infront of goal and could have scored himself.

 

[Malappapper]

The wingers need to be attack their man more.

When they do actually do that, they fail. That is the worse aspect of our game me thinks.

 

[Trickykid]

Where did you find those statistics?

Whoscored.com has those stats, and plenty more.