Champions League

[serghei]

As for our average campaigns, i`will take those CL-trophies even if it was boring for the neutrals, thank you very much.

Pretty much sums it up. Madrid are more about quantity, Barcelona are more about quality. Madrid produce more titles, Barcelona produce better winners.

 

[Morten]

What a surprise. I expected something completely different. My points flew right across your head, it seems.

BTW how many of those 7 recent RM CL-wins did you watch? Let me guess, the last 4, only? Will take your silence as a yes.

I started watching RM in the galactico-era(including all of our failures to get past first knockout), so i did see the win vs Leverkusen, anything before that is before my time.
Why do i get the feeling that this is starting to enter age-shaming territory

 

[DonAK]

I started watching RM in the galactico-era(including all of our failures to get past first knockout), so i did see the win vs Leverkusen, anything before that is before my time.
Why do i get the feeling that this is starting to enter age-shaming territory

Rosenborg and Real Madrid.

Can there be a more disgusting combination.

Only need you to tell me you're a Patriots and Golden State fan now.

 

[Morten]

Rosenborg and Real Madrid.

Can there be a more disgusting combination.

Only need you to tell me you're a Patriots and Golden State fan now.

Cant blame me for RBK, i was born into it(molded by it).
I dont follow American football/soccer/whatever.

 

[Leo_Messi]

I started watching RM in the galactico-era(including all of our failures to get past first knockout), so i did see the win vs Leverkusen, anything before that is before my time.
Why do i get the feeling that this is starting to enter age-shaming territory

No shamming at all as I don't think that we are much apart age wise. Just baffling that you found what I wrote in post 1711 as controversial. Was it inaccurate? If so, argue why that is the case because I can't spot any wrong claims in my post as someone that has watched all of your CL campaigns in the past 20 years.

Never said anything about what I wrote being the wrong approach. At times I wished that we were more pragmatic and could loss a league title in November just to concentrate on the CL and win it rather than capitulating on all fronts and having an institutional meltdown. We are just not that kind of a club. Don't get me wrong, I like aspects of pragmatic football and sound defensive performances. Italy being my second national team and AC Milan my second club should point to this fact.

Obviously the ideal would be a fusion of Barça and RM in the CL. That would be pretty much unstoppable but a bit unfair and tiring in the end so better this way.

Although Valverde tried to do it the "RM way" last year but forgot that we don't have the right players for it, the meanly or tradition as a club and was sent home crying with a 3-0 defeat in Rome.

 

[Morten]

No shamming at all as I don't think that we are much apart age wise. Just baffling that you found what I wrote in post 1711 as controversial. Was it inaccurate? If so, argue why that is the case because I can't spot any wrong claims in my post as someone that has watched all of your CL campaigns in the past 20 years.

Never said anything about what I wrote being the wrong approach. At times I wished that we were more pragmatic and could loss a league title in November just to concentrate on the CL and win it rather than capitulating on all fronts and having an institutional meltdown. We are just not that kind of a club. Don't get me wrong, I like aspects of pragmatic football and sound defensive performances. Italy being my second national team and AC Milan my second club should point to this fact.

Obviously the ideal would be a fusion of Barça and RM in the CL. That would be pretty much unstoppable but a bit unfair and tiring in the end so better this way.

Although Valverde tried to do it the "RM way" last year but forgot that we don't have the right players for it and was sent home crying with a 3-0 defeat in Rome.

Nah, its not controversial to claim we are jammy bastards in the CL, because yes, we are(look no further than the last campaign).
But we had some really good campaigns in there as well though.
But as far as not being "Memorable", i disagree, when people say "CL", the first team that comes to mind is RM, i`d say that qualifies as being memorable enough.

 

[Leo_Messi]

Nah, its not controversial to claim we are jammy bastards in the CL, because yes, we are(look no further than the last campaign).
But we had some really good campaigns in there as well though.
But as far as not being "Memorable", i disagree, when people say "CL", the first team that comes to mind is RM, i`d say that qualifies as being memorable enough.

Which I acknowledged but I was speaking in general terms as I won't or can't give a resume of all of your 13 European Cup/CL winning campaigns as I did not see the first 6 to begin with.

Memorable in the sense of winning sure. However it is the same story as with Italy and Germany. How many of their WC campaigns would you classify as memorable as a neutral? I enjoyed the 2006 campaign greatly but not sure if many neutrals (other than fans of Italy) enjoyed how barely made it past Australia and needed a Grosso dive to progress. I remember my father telling me how boring the Germans always were in the World Cup whenever winning it. The 1990 win is probably the clearest example of this. 2014 was an anomaly and more the influence of Spain that helped change the football culture in Germany to allow a more technical kind of football. Before that the German prototype of a great player was your Effenberg, Matthaus, Ballack (most recently) etc.

Anyway for now that is. Hopefully it will be different in say 2050. Or when the new European super league emerges (no knockout rounds) and we win that tournament 10 times in a row.

 

[Morten]

Which I acknowledged but I was speaking in general terms as I won't or can't give a resume of all of your 13 European Cup/CL winning campaigns as I did not see the first 6 to begin with.

Memorable in the sense of winning sure. However it is the same story as with Italy and Germany. How many of their WC campaigns would you classify as memorable as a neutral? I enjoyed the 2006 campaign greatly but not sure if many neutrals (other than fans of Italy) enjoyed how barely made it past Australia and needed a Grosso dive to progress. I remember my father telling me how boring the Germans always were in the World Cup whenever winning it. The 1990 win is probably the clearest example of this. 2014 was an anomaly and more the influence of Spain that helped change the football culture in Germany to allow a more technical kind of football. Before that the German prototype of a great player was your Effenberg, Matthaus, Ballack (most recently) etc.

Anyway for now that is. Hopefully it will be different in say 2050. Or when the new European super league emerges (no knockout rounds) and we win that tournament 10 times in a row.

NT isn`t really my thing, though i did watch 2006 world cup, Italy was good, but not particulary memorable if i recall.
I dont really agree with Germany, they play good football most of the time, not only in their 2014 win, but lets say, 2010, weren`t they scoring for fun before they met Spain?
I watched some german league back in the day(before everything was an instant win for Bayern, though they are always up there), wasn`t too bad, some great long shots as well.

Germany had many great players in history, btw, way before my time, but the likes of Beckenbauer and Gerd Muller are memorable, as was the Bayern of the 70ths.

 

[Leo_Messi]

NT isn`t really my thing, though i did watch 2006 world cup, Italy was good, but not particulary memorable if i recall.
I dont really agree with Germany, they play good football most of the time, not only in their 2014 win, but lets say, 2010, weren`t they scoring for fun before they met Spain?
I watched some german league back in the day(before everything was an instant win for Bayern, though they are always up there), wasn`t too bad, some great long shots as well.

Germany had many great players in history, btw, way before my time, but the likes of Beckenbauer and Gerd Muller are memorable, as was the Bayern of the 70ths.

Maybe it has to do with Norway not doing overly well, lol?

Yes, post 2002 it is a different Germany from the traditional one that I just described. Not talking about that period but before where they won all of their trophies aside from the World Cup win in 2014. It was during that period that the football sayings related to the German NT emerged.

The German league was always an anomaly IMO. Vastly more entertaining than the German national team pre-2002 for some reason. To this day they are scoring goals for fun in that league. I think that the Bundesliga has had the highest goals per game ratio in the past 10 years of all the top 5 leagues in Europe. Betting on over 2.5 goals is usually a safe bet in most matches.

Sure but talking about entertaining here as a neutral. Germany, much like Italy, (of the old) were pragmatic winning machines. If you needed to defend a lead those were the most ideal teams for that with italy obviously edging it. Germany had this "never die attitude"/"no nos rendimos nunca" attitude that RM has traditionally had as well.

 

[Ursegor]

What is the greater point in this discussion? If you think Madrid's 3-peat was not plastered with memorable or spectacular football, you'll end up arguing that only about 3 teams in CL history were ever memorable.

Bayern, Chelsea, Inter, United, Milan, Liverpool, Porto. None of those teams that won the CL since 2000 (other than Barca and Madrid) played all-out offensive masterclasses. They were all lucky as fuck as well in certain moments. Not even Bayern, which was the most dominant team after Barca. They were also a counterattacking side with 2 big double pivot destroyers in the middle + set pieces + physicality.

So is the argument that only Barca and Ajax of the 70s are worthy CL winners or what? I don't get it.

Barca fans shouldn't talk about luck either. We aren't even getting past Arsenal in 2011 if not for a van Persie red card because he shot the ball 1 second after the whistle + Cesc backheel pass + Bendtner toe poke rescued by Mascherano, let alone the tie against Chelsea were the first shot on target in the 93th minute goes in. Then 2 minutes later Pique plays handball in his own box which enables Övrebo's retirement.

Not Madrid's fault if Bayern clown around in defense and don't have enough quality to finish the chances they create upfront while Ronaldo and Ramos do.

 

[Leo_Messi]

What is the greater point in this discussion? If you think Madrid's 3-peat was not plastered with memorable or spectacular football, you'll end up arguing that only about 3 teams in CL history were ever memorable.

Bayern, Chelsea, Inter, United, Milan, Liverpool, Porto. None of those teams that won the CL since 2000 (other than Barca and Madrid) played all-out offensive masterclasses. They were all lucky as fuck as well in certain moments. Not even Bayern, which was the most dominant team after Barca. They were also a counterattacking side with 2 big double pivot destroyers in the middle + set pieces + physicality.

So is the argument that only Barca and Ajax of the 70s are worthy CL winners or what? I don't get it.

Barca fans shouldn't talk about luck either. We aren't even getting past Arsenal in 2011 if not for a van Persie red card because he shot the ball 1 second after the whistle + Cesc backheel pass + Bendtner toe poke rescued by Mascherano, let alone the tie against Chelsea were the first shot on target in the 93th minute goes in. Then 2 minutes later Pique plays handball in his own box which enables Övrebo's retirement.

Not Madrid's fault if Bayern clown around in defense and don't have enough quality to finish the chances they create upfront while Ronaldo and Ramos do.

The point was not whether something was memorable or spectacular (that was a side-comment that later turned into a separate discussion) but what I wrote in post 1711 about how RM has conducted themselves in the CL in the past 20 years and their approach. Rightly or wrongly was not the theme here and winners are always right by default.

It was more of a reaction to all those users here who were surprised about how the Ajax-RM game turned out. They must have slept in a cave for 20 straight years to have been surprised because I saw it coming ages ago and wrote about it here pre-match as well.

 

[Benzema10]

i think Lyon will win at home.

 

[Bigkingleo10]

Lyon is strong but their defense is crap. I think they will atleast score one goal and the result will be 1-1 or 1-2 forr Barca.

 

[Benzema10]

Barcelona will sit back and play counter, i mean the plan will be let messi take the ball and try to do something... valverde never take any risk and Lyon is very good against attacking side.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

Barcelona will sit back and play counter, i mean the plan will be let messi take the ball and try to do something... valverde never take any risk and Lyon is very good against attacking side.

Barcelona sitting back? Who are you? Ernie? Any game we start parking the bus we will end up losing 4-0. We have no idea how to park the bus. We need ball control. That's our main defense.