Champions League

[Yannik]

Depends which ticket. Don't live in England, but last time I've been to a game in 2015 (Wolves vs Middlesbrough, fun match) it was 30 GBP I think. Arsenal season ticket is around 900 from what I remember last.

It's 220€ for a BVB season ticket, which is the most expensive in Germany. Matchday prices scale in similar heights. In fourth grade me and my best mate were able to buy Hannover tickets from just saving the 2,50 DM lunch money we got each day from our parents.

And everyone suffered through the (relatively) poor standard of football on display. I mean we are just talking about the differences between some Frosinone not being able to afford a video analyst while Wolves have about 5 of them because of where they are and who they're affiliated with. Things were fairer, but so so much poorer knowing how well it can be played when you help it be played better with a bit of money.

I mean did they even? We're looking down at the matches of the 80s, being used at nowadays higher pace. But do you really think people in the 80s watched a football match and didnt think this was the most exciting thing they ever watched? In 40 years people will look back at the "slow football" of today and wonder how the hell we could enjoy such a sleep fest. We're just comparing in relatives to what we are spoiled with.

Honestly I don't see the oil funding as a reason to demonise fanbases or clubs and those who work for them. It for sure would be nice if players were forced to earn less and I don't think they themselves would mind if they were to unionise and take one referendum over it (I would hope anyway).
But I'm not bothered because on the whole we as spectators get to watch good games and truth be told I don't care that PSV will never be positioned as well as Liverpool on European stage. Why should I? Why should anyone? Do you watch football to experience a cinderella story from your local area that makes you feel fuzzy inside, or to see it be played at high standard no matter who it is that gets to the final?

The former with all due respect. And I dont think I would even notice that this isnt the "highest level" it could be, because in that case we would not have experienced a higher level to miss it. On top of that it does make a better competition, with more teams to watch, more players to discover and more unpredictable events happening.

I do not think that Bayern beating Augsburg 7-0 is "exciting" just because the level of football (played by one team) was very sexy. I can admire the skill, but ultimatively none of the goals feel even remotely special because of how expected they are. It's for the same reason I do not share the excitement of a hypothetical Messi/Ronaldo/Neymar/whatever super team. It would be fun for a few games to watch how all the worlds best individualists walks all over Real Valladolid, but after the 3rd consecutive 10-0 win, none of the goals feel particularly impactful anymore.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Can't see anyone but ManCity, Real, or PSG winning the competition at this point. My bet's on Pep.

View attachment 8868

City is not safe yet. Dortmund can knock them out, quite plausible.

 

[Luftstalag14]

I understand many local fans don't really care if their team/club is going to play sexy football or to be strong enough to challenge the top flights heavyweights and win a title etc., after all each country has many clubs and teams on lower tiers. However, most of us on this forum for example are not local fans, rather foreign/international fans and like it or not, we make up a great chunk of the fandom or the base that is increasingly crucial to these clubs financially. International fans who have no ties to those locales are likely to be more fixated with how well the team plays and trophies won, more than local fans. Two different group of fans in my opinion.

 

[El Gato]

I mean did they even? We're looking down at the matches of the 80s, being used at nowadays higher pace. But do you really think people in the 80s watched a football match and didnt think this was the most exciting thing they ever watched? In 40 years people will look back at the "slow football" of today and wonder how the hell we could enjoy such a sleep fest. We're just comparing in relatives to what we are spoiled with.

Come on now, of course it is better and it doesn't stand in conflict that it can be even better 40 years from now. At the very least the conditions in which players developed are. We can debate how much raw flair or creativity top top players have now compared to even 5-10-20 years ago, but they live and eat better on the whole, they perform at their desired level longer, serious injuries are less common meaning they can give their best more often.
On purely hypothetical basis surely if you were to run a time-machine experiment and were able to stick 1970 Germany team into the current kit and current pitches, trained by current professionals for 10-20 years assuming the rest of the relevant things remain the same, you'd watch them have a career that is better than the one they had in tangible terms (trophies, stats, endorsements).

I do not think that Bayern beating Augsburg 7-0 is "exciting" just because the level of football (played by one team) was very sexy. I can admire the skill, but ultimatively none of the goals feel even remotely special because of how expected they are. It's for the same reason I do not share the excitement of a hypothetical Messi/Ronaldo/Neymar/whatever super team. It would be fun for a few games to watch how all the worlds best individualists walks all over Real Valladolid, but after the 3rd consecutive 10-0 win, none of the goals feel particularly impactful anymore.

No it is not exciting.

Hence the Super League, but that is a different story. BTW are you boycotting it if it happens?

 

[Joan]

I understand many local fans don't really care if their team/club is going to play sexy football or to be strong enough to challenge the top flights heavyweights and win a title etc., after all each country has many clubs and teams on lower tiers.

What do you mean? Think it mostly depends to which tier the team locals in question suport belongs. If we're talking about local cules or madridistas, I believe they're all about winning and dominating. Just like the rest of the fanbase. Speaking from experience, Dinamo Zagreb fans take winning domestically for granted and are focused on Europe. Before Bjelica and Zoran Mamic achieved it, everyone was focused on spring in Europe. But I'm from Split and my highschool friends never shut up about Hajduk returning to the top. Even now when it's far from it.

Yh, going to matches, taking part in the life of the club you support is nice, but winning is a huge part of that culture. If you support clubs capable of it. Don't think it's that different for local and international fans.

 

[Horatio]

Who thinks Euro cup 2016 can be seen as a precursor of what football will look like in 40 years?

I am not as optimistic about the evolution of the excitement of the game.

 

[Yannik]

I understand many local fans don't really care if their team/club is going to play sexy football or to be strong enough to challenge the top flights heavyweights and win a title etc., after all each country has many clubs and teams on lower tiers. However, most of us on this forum for example are not local fans, rather foreign/international fans and like it or not, we make up a great chunk of the fandom or the base that is increasingly crucial to these clubs financially. International fans who have no ties to those locales are likely to be more fixated with how well the team plays and trophies won, more than local fans. Two different group of fans in my opinion.

If there was a strong Chinese club in your city that internationally rivaled European clubs, would you not support it? A huge reason why many people even here on this forum became Barca fans (or an international top club in general) is because they are not very confident about their local alternative. Most people on this forum are from Eastern Europe, Scandinavia or the US which all basically share the common denominator that any club from their area country will not have any realistic chance of great relevance in the foreseeable future. For the same reason Barca fans from England, Germany or Italy are rarer than these despite proportionally higher population numbers.

Normally on this forum and for obvious reasons 95% want Argentina to win a WC for Messi. But I remember how all the Croatians here including Bojan went apeshit in 2018 because Croatia beat Argentina, even though that meant Argentina was going with 1 point into the 3rd match and where on the brink of elimination and everyone else on this forum was on meltdown. And I bet if Barca played Zagreb many Barca fans from there would also be pretty much conflicted. If people see a reason to support local, they will do it. Guaranteed.

I do absolutely care how well my team plays. And it goes hand in hand with my wish to take football back from the investors and elite clubs and give it back to the lower tiers, because that also means my local team is not a hundred times outspend on the market to build a squad I can get a boner from.

 

[Birdy]

2017 RM ko'd Bayern
2018 RM ko'd Bayern
2019 Liverpool ko'd Bayern
2020 nobody ko'd Bayern
2021 Psg ko'd Bayern

It's interesting to go further back:
2009: Barca ko'd Bayern
2010: Inter ko'd Bayern in the final
2011: Inter ko'd Bayern and then bottled against Schalke
2012: Chelsea ko'd Bayern in the final
2013: nobody ko'd Bayern
2014: RM ko'd Bayern
2015: Barca ko'd Bayern
2016: Atletico ko'd Bayern, and bottled it against RM in the final despite being miles better that season

It works for the most part.
Only 2 exceptions in 12 seasons.

Who thinks Euro cup 2016 can be seen as a precursor of what football will look like in 40 years?

I am not as optimistic about the evolution of the excitement of the game.

You are right if you are referring only to CL. Since then, we have seen basically teams that try to 'steal' a cup like Portugal did in that Euro, instead of winning it, and some great teams that were the best that season (Bayern 2016, City 2018, City 2021?) lost out.

But again that's only in Cup competitions.
On the contrary, since 2016 we have seen some fantastic league contests, and the quality of attacking football has improved a lot

 

[BerkeleyBernie]

City is not safe yet. Dortmund can knock them out, quite plausible.

Sure. No one is safe in a knockout competition. I like Dortmund, but they're more likely to make critical mistakes than ManCity.

 

[Yannik]

Come on now, of course it is better and it doesn't stand in conflict that it can be even better 40 years from now. At the very least the conditions in which players developed are. We can debate how much raw flair or creativity top top players have now compared to even 5-10-20 years ago, but they live and eat better on the whole, they perform at their desired level longer, serious injuries are less common meaning they can give their best more often.
On purely hypothetical basis surely if you were to run a time-machine experiment and were able to stick 1970 Germany team into the current kit and current pitches, trained by current professionals for 10-20 years assuming the rest of the relevant things remain the same, you'd watch them have a career that is better than the one they had in tangible terms (trophies, stats, endorsements).

But we wouldnt literally be travelling back to the 70s. We would just limit top teams to a competition level comparable to the 70s, which means the exact same quality and all the great players today still exist, they are just not concentrated on 5 teams. Technical advancement, better pitches, video analysts etc still happen regardless. These players are also not playing worse, just because they are on a third of their wage. They are just having 2 Lambos less in the garage.

No it is not exciting.

Hence the Super League, but that is a different story. BTW are you boycotting it if it happens?

Most likely. Not just out of moral conviction but simply because I already notice how I fell out of interest with the sport over the past 4 or 5 years. I do not really spend my saturdays watching multiple matches anymore, sometimes I do not watch at all even. I actually force myself to watch many matches simply to stay up to date, but often I just let the TV run while doing something else. Or just watch the highlights. I honestly dont even know when or where the EC starts this year, and I forgot which group Germany was in. I think with a Super League I would finally just stop caring..

 

[Luftstalag14]

[MENTION=22463]Joan[/MENTION] [MENTION=19371]Yannik[/MENTION]

I wrote that in the context of those so-called "plastic clubs" and their fandom, since we were discussing what investment and big money did to football etc. I mean, for example local City and PSG fans were fans long before big money showed up and their clubs were swooped by foreign investors and billionaires, they are still fans today regardless of their club's ownership model, how well they play and trophies won. Foreign and international fans of those clubs who don't that have kind of local attachment, those who were attracted by the new found powers, the surging profile of their club as a result of the new owners are more likely to demand playing well and trophies than local fans who have had the connection all along, in both good and bad times. I am not saying local fans don't care, of course they do, I am saying they don't need that moment of glory, that big name player who did wonders, success on the pitch etc. which might have been the bedrock of what attracted foreign/international fans to keep going. In either case there is nothing wrong there.

As to the makeup of fans on this particular forum or other platform, I don't know. On Twitter I have seen more diverse fans (geographically more diverse than this forum, I have seen Barca fans from football powerhouses in Europe), I think people became fans of a foreign club for a variety of reasons, not having a football club in their own city/country that reaches the height of these elite European clubs might or might not be a factor. Yes I have a club in Beijing that I support (Beijing Guoan, the oldest one in Beijing, one which I grew up watching and supporting), of course they will never be as good as Barca but that had nothing to do with my fascination with European football and Barca. I think many people are naturally attracted to the best in the respective sport or business they are interested in, whatever that is.

[MENTION=19371]Yannik[/MENTION], on your wish of taking football back from investors, I think it is quite impossible and generally inevitable/unavoidable, at least for the top flight football in each country. Football is a business and football clubs are in the entertainment business. I think it is quite a different picture in lower tiers, where you could still have football closer to its original community form, more or less. Top level football, not a chance to drive the investors out, too late.

 

[Yannik]

[MENTION=19371]Yannik[/MENTION], on your wish of taking football back from investors, I think it is quite impossible and generally inevitable/unavoidable, at least for the top flight football in each country. Football is a business and football clubs are in the entertainment business. I think it is quite a different picture in lower tiers, where you could still have football closer to its original community form, more or less. Top level football, not a chance to drive the investors out, too late.

Unfortunately, it is too late. Though I can still find joy in when they loose. From a moral viewpoint I truely despise these clubs for the fact that they opened a door we now cant shut. I do think though caps on wages, fees and third party payments could be introduced. I just dont think the UEFA has the balls to do it.

 

[snowy]

It's a miracle Pulisic finished the match upright and not in a coffin. Way he wasn't getting tackled all over the pitch, I was sure Tuchel was going to sub him.

Ngolo what a warrior! Not even fully fit but had to pitch in for Kova and boy did he deliver

Highlight came at the end with the amazing overhead scissor kick from the Taremi. Puskas worthy

 

[Ode to Django]

Why was Lewa dropped for Chupo Moting again?

has he not been very good this season

 

[Messigician]

Why was Lewa dropped for Chupo Moting again?

has he not been very good this season

Obvs Lewa was injured LMFAO