CL | 1/4 Final: FC Barcelona - FC Bayern Munich 2-8

[Horatio]

Even took Suarez off at half time, already knew we?d won the tie at that point. The cheek of it! Say what you want about Lucho tactically but he had unreal mentality and attitude.

That game in Copa del Rey where he took off Roberto and let Barca continue to play with 10 men with 8 minutes to go.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

Even took Suarez off at half time, already knew we?d won the tie at that point. The cheek of it! Say what you want about Lucho tactically but he had unreal mentality and attitude.

The guy had some big balls.

 

[Vilarrubi]

That game in Copa del Rey where he took off Roberto and let Barca continue to play with 10 men with 8 minutes to go.

#LuchoIn

 

[KingLeo10]

If I had to make a list of the most feared teams in Europe in the last 15-20 years.

It'd be Pep's Barca circa 2011, Barca 2015, RM16/17, Bayern 12/13.

Others don't come close. These were true super teams.

 

[Birdy]

Football isn't a game of stats. It is simple as that. This has been shown hundreds oF times.

That's a big cliche, which is being proven wrong gradually with the advent of sophisticated stats.
In a few years from now, everything we can 'see' will be reflected on some kind of stat.

There is huge problem when you think Xg is more important stat than the one that triumph them all: GOALS
Get all data you want, we still ended the game winning 3-0.

If Goals deviate significantly from xGoals it can mean only two things: i) failure of strikers to finish easy chances/miraculous saves from goalkeepers and vice versa, or ii) luck
In that sense it's an empty statement to say 'goals are more important'
Obviously goals count. But any coach and team that is going to win a game does not base the effort on luck.
And if they base the effort in 'we have Messi, let's see what he can do' without any tactical plan, or 'we have Ter Stegen, let's see how many clear goals he can save', then they are a joke of a team.
xG measures how well a team performs. Something that goals cannot measure by default.

And yes, Liverpool had chances, but few of them were from the flanks, and fewer were from situation where we were playing conservative. Only a shot from Milner and the Salah chance was that. And dangerous attack they had was a situation of counter attack and using their speed, the exact thing I want to avoid. You can go rewatch highlight if you want and tell me if I missed other chances when we were sitting back/inviting pressure.

I did not argue about flanks/centre. I said we are not made to sit back, period.
We were sitting back and inviting pressure the whole second half. Liverpool had us pinned back. And it worked for them: 4 clear cut chances: two fell to Milner, one to Salah, and one to Firminio/Salah(post). So, they could have scored 4 in the second half alone. Plus the sitter that Mane missed in the first half, they could have scored 5 in Camp Nou.
On the contrary, we were very bad in the second half, the only chance we created was Suares' ricocet that led to Messi's goal, and Dembele's at the end of injury time with all of Liverpool in our box.
Whether we wanted to do sth different, and we failed to, it's another discussion, but even worse if we did not intend to sit back and they pinned us back...

Because really, all what you say is: We are losing both way, but I just hate not being YOLO on attack. This is more of arrogance than anything else

Never said that. You are misconstruing my arguments.
Even Pep with City cannot go YOLO on attack. It goes without saying that you must devise your defensive plan as carefully.

Edit: Also, Setien was actually inviting pressure in his early days here, rewatch away game against Napoli, trying to arrogantly build slowly from the back could have cost us the game because our midfield is very prone to lose the ball under pressure.

Look at my post in the 'Champions League' thread. I said exactly that we are prone to steals because of the slowness we build from the back.
But it's a double-edged sword. Sitting back will harm us equally. Because we are trash at doing that.

And I repeat again: I have NO strategy that would get us past Bayern. It's beyond the abilities of this squad. I care only about minimizing damage.

 

[khaled_a_d]

That's a big cliche, which is being proven wrong gradually with the advent of sophisticated stats.
In a few years from now, everything we can 'see' will be reflected on some kind of stat.

That is just wrong, stats provides only a helpful insights that need to be put in context and just aids in ability to make decision.
How you use is what helps you see the game, when you count on it and the human factors.
Even club with best use of analytics in the world (Leicester) are doing it that way. Same with teams like Bayern & Liverpool.

You see what you want to see with stats if you don't provide context.

If Goals deviate significantly from xGoals it can mean only two things: i) failure of strikers to finish easy chances/miraculous saves from goalkeepers and vice versa, or ii) luck
In that sense it's an empty statement to say 'goals are more important'
Obviously goals count. But any coach and team that is going to win a game does not base the effort on luck.
And if they base the effort in 'we have Messi, let's see what he can do' without any tactical plan, or 'we have Ter Stegen, let's see how many clear goals he can save', then they are a joke of a team.
xG measures how well a team performs. Something that goals cannot measure by default.

Again, this is prime example of empty use of states.
You think that a state that is universal is something that coach should care about, when coach has to create chances that is more important for his own players.
Messi is above average xG, but if you create headers for him it is stupid, despite the fact it counts in xG.
Again, You can't use states in vacuum to make it count. In such case advanced stats are even far worse than basic raw stats like goals

We were sitting back and inviting pressure the whole second half. Liverpool had us pinned back. And it worked for them: 4 clear cut chances: two fell to Milner, one to Salah, and one to Firminio/Salah(post). So, they could have scored 4 in the second half alone. Plus the sitter that Mane missed in the first half, they could have scored 5 in Camp Nou.
On the contrary, we were very bad in the second half, the only chance we created was Suares' ricocet that led to Messi's goal, and Dembele's at the end of injury time with all of Liverpool in our box.
Whether we wanted to do sth different, and we failed to, it's another discussion, but even worse if we did not intend to sit back and they pinned us back...

This is factually untrue.
Only 2 chances were created when we were sitting back: one for Milner and the one that hit the post.
The rest we were playing highline defense. So again, not in a situation of sitting back but the total opposite.

The one for Milner was a tough shot for him, a shot/chance you would accept conceding one from a tea like Liverpool. That isn't luck, but that is playing smart and limiting the quality of chances.

So yes, on defensive side altering our way didn't hurt us. Actually it was helpful.

Never said that. You are misconstruing my arguments.
Even Pep with City cannot go YOLO on attack. It goes without saying that you must devise your defensive plan as carefully.


Look at my post in the 'Champions League' thread. I said exactly that we are prone to steals because of the slowness we build from the back.
But it's a double-edged sword. Sitting back will harm us equally. Because we are trash at doing that.

And I repeat again: I have NO strategy that would get us past Bayern. It's beyond the abilities of this squad. I care only about minimizing damage.

Again, I made it very clear what I mean by playing conservative

No one here advocates sitting back, it is about what we had vs Napoli tactically from our fullbacks and DM vs what Setien did in the league. Which was YOLO game plan that leaves ton of space behind fullbacks and leave our CB on their own.


Edit: I think we are agreeing here: We don't need to park the bus, but we need more cautious approach from fullbacks and DM to leave up space and not invite pressure

 

[Katarina1]

This is probably the best lineup Setien might pick for this one: Ter-Stegen, Semedo, Pique, Lenglet, Alba, Vidal, Busquets, Frenkie, Messi, Suarez, Fati

 

[Neymessi]

The only reason I have the tiniest of hopes of getting past this is because it's a one legged match.

Humilation is definitely on the cards sooner or later, either Bayern or City or PSG in the finals we are pretty dire.

Every option feels like a lose-lose. If we somehow win it's not really a good news considering we'll be facing city. If we lose it's obviously bad but if we do lose would you want it to be a narrow loss or a humilation? I don't know the answer to that myself. A narrow loss would not change things drastically and who knows Barto may get elected again. A humilation could really lead to a lot of introspection and change.

 

[raskolnikov]

If I had to make a list of the most feared teams in Europe in the last 15-20 years.

It'd be Pep's Barca circa 2011, Barca 2015, RM16/17, Bayern 12/13.

Others don't come close. These were true super teams.

Invincibles and Chelsea in mid/late 00's were great as well.

 

[JohnN]

This is probably the best lineup Setien might pick for this one: Ter-Stegen, Semedo, Pique, Lenglet, Alba, Vidal, Busquets, Frenkie, Messi, Suarez, Fati

Perhaps a 4-4-2 with Puig at the top of the Diamond and Suarez out is better.
-----------------Mats---------------
-Semedo - Pique - Lenglet - Alba-
---------------- Busi ----------------
--------Vidal ----------FDJ----------
---------------- Puig ----------------
-----Messi-------------Griezmann--

I feel this is a lineup with balanced workrate, physicality, vision and technique.
Puig must have a good game though, which is not a given in his age.

 

[neo_wolf]

This will be the line up.

Alba(he will be up here)

Griezman---------Suarez

Rakitic-----------------------Vidal
--------------Busquests------------------Messi(he will recieve ball here)

------------Lenglet-------Pique----------Semedo


---------------------MATS----------------

 

[DennyCrane]

As a german, it's critical that Barca doesn't deliver a dumpster fire performance here. I maybe won't be able to take the gloating if they do.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

This is probably the best lineup Setien might pick for this one: Ter-Stegen, Semedo, Pique, Lenglet, Alba, Vidal, Busquets, Frenkie, Messi, Suarez, Fati

Would rather see Griezmann that Suarez. Atleast Griezmann doing something for the defence.

 

[Barcaman]

Odds are stacked against us boys. Yet, we are pretty formidable at home so I wouldn't discount Barca just yet.

 

[BBZ8800]

Perhaps a 4-4-2 with Puig at the top of the Diamond and Suarez out is better.
-----------------Mats---------------
-Semedo - Pique - Lenglet - Alba-
---------------- Busi ----------------
--------Vidal ----------FDJ----------
---------------- Puig ----------------
-----Messi-------------Griezmann--

I feel this is a lineup with balanced workrate, physicality, vision and technique.
Puig must have a good game though, which is not a given in his age.

Inexperienced and light Puig against physically strong Germans.

Sounds like a million dollar idea.
The only piece missing is Puig-Fati combo.