Copa America 2019

[MagIX]

Beast is right. I was mentioning that last season too after a Barca game.
Messi is a blessing and a curse. If everything is build around him, it is rather easy for the opposing team to stop the whole attack.
But it is obviously not his fault some managers give him the burden to carry the whole team by himself.

There is no question Messi should be the main man in every team. But there is a difference between that and asking him to be a one man show.

I totally agree

 

[Aryagorn]

Feel free to kill me but Argentina problem is Messi
Messi needs to be part of the whole not the player to build the team on , he is the ace , the trump card , hell even the super-sub who can win the match with a freekick
he is no Maradonna , he lacks the personality that motivate others he ain't not captain
Current Argentina needs to play their collective game , speedy one too with all the youth they have
I'll repeat what i said on twitter it's easy for Messi to be normal , it's impossible to ask 10 players to be on Messi wave length
giving the ball to Messi don't work on INT level , works for Barca in la liga and not in Europe too


that's what i believe.. you may not agree but it gets pretty frustrating watching them

Hey Beast man! You're back!! Hope every thing's going well. Say hi to the twins

 

[Jadentheman]

at the end of the day Tata Martino was gold for them, and he's doing great with Mexico as well

Tata is a good manager. A shame he failed during the 2nd half of Barca's 2013 season

 

[Messigician]

Tata is a good manager. A shame he failed during the 2nd half of Barca's 2013 season

Or Valdes injury...

 

[Beast]

Hey Beast man! You're back!! Hope every thing's going well. Say hi to the twins

Hey Bro , great to see you here still
yeah the twins are my life and favorite time consuming activity now... funny how kids change your life completely

 

[Beast]

Argentina would probably be crap anyway no matter what route they take. Give it to Messi or not, they are just poorly managed and have a very uneven team. I wouldn't say Messi is their problem, but he surely ain't their savior either. If anything, Argies problem is that they kind of expect Messi to save them instead of starting to bring the pieces back together on a collective level.

I would say team wise they are certainly behind Brazil, Uruguay and Colombia, and are probably around Chile level.

Btw, they were totally crap without Messi when he wasn't there. Would've probably failed to even make it to Russia 2018 World Cup.

Argentina is /was crap because they never left the Messi stage , they will need to setup as if Messi isn't an Argie
i agree with your post though

have you watched the last 2 games ?

Your asking something Argentina can't do. They can't even make 4 passes in a row without losing the ball. I have never seen 2 games in a row of such a low low level. It was like watching a 2nd league game from my country. Utterly disgusting. Their only chance of winning is giving the ball to Messi and pray he pulls something out of hiss ass. Without him they wouldn't even be at the last World Cup.

As i said above the problem is they have Messi , who is super player and win games by himself .. the moment you take him out of the picture as if he is injured or really retired and go back to basics you will see a different Argentina because the truth is they have a great squad but collectively they fail big time

All those around him mostly coming from a great season domestically : Celso , De Paul , Aguero , Martinez etc they can do way way better

but they take the easy route
A route make them lazy , predictable and lack faith in themselves and their mates except the man himself.. it's a very unhealthy feeling

You have to look at how truly bad Argentina's team is to see that Messi is not the problem here. If they had even a semi decent coach, they wouldnt be as bad as they are now. The system in which they play in is horrible. Their coach set his team up in a very wrong way.

I mean, look at this video and then tell me how Messi is the weak link.
https://twitter.com/SweeperWriter/status/1141784347076259840

And this isnt even the worst of it. The Argentina team could barely string two passes together. They are truly awful and Messi isn't the problem.

I think i'm misunderstood , my post wasn't an attack or underestimating Messi skill
i'm saying he can't be the base of the team and let's not use the coach / the players excuse

the truth is this team had more than 4-5 managers now , different players from a young Aguero/Tevez /Higuain etc to the current one
It's not the manager anymore in terms of lacking tactical awareness , it's the realization that he lacks that persona aura / charisma that Maradonna had to move average players around him

All the managers (Maradona included ) tried to find a way to copy Maradona success template (86 ) while the pure fact is they are both completely different
Messi the quiet introvert player is the extreme opposite of the outspoken , loud , strong character passionate Maradona

Yes but they are not creating very much when he doesn't get the ball. Nearly all their dangerous moments in the first two games came through him. He should not be blamed for their lack of goals anyway. He is taking players out of the game for his teammates and they still do very little

Came through him but what do you have apart from that ? passing the ball to Messi isn't a tactic
you build a tactic as if he is not any better than Di Maria or Pastore... if he comes in contact with the ball then he do his magic

you need to pass the ball to the striker , play as if Messi doesn't exist

I agree, but Messi is not the problem per se.
The problem is who do not understand that, those who continue to build a team around Messi (not only in NT, but also with Barcelona)
Messi should be a part of a working system, a "simply" added value, he would perform much better.
Without a team, without a working system, no one wins. If you want to win, the team is more important than the names. There is no such thing as a player who alone makes a team win.
Error is only human, but to persist in it, is diabolical. How it's possible to keep making the same mistake again and again ?

The similarities between him & Maradona killed him worked against him
they were looking for his Burruchaga , Valdano , Giusti , Batista , Brown , Pumpido while he actually had much greater players around him but all underestimated on the national level because Argentina adores the omni-hero the Maradona , the Passerella , the Ortega , the Riquelme
i agree with all you are saying.. unfortunately

Anyway great result if a team reached 4 finals by playing a system based on 1 man (Messi)... that means this player is out of this world, an alien (and btw with a little bit more luck Arg could have won a final). But i do not think so, 2007 Messi was 20 y.o, 2014 Arg reached the final more with luck than merit.

But i agree "They should have built the teams as if he isn't who he is and he play as part of the machine not the entire machine": this is the summary (and solution) of all the problems of Argentina (and of Barcelona).

He is amazing but how he is doing with Argentina is killing all football fans

can you imagine in 2010 they had an Aguero , Tevez , Milito (CL winner that summer ) , Higuain , Messi all in top form
add them to Di Michelies , Veron , Burdisso , Heinze , Di Maria, Ottamendi , Mascherano , Walter Samuel , Pastore , Di Maria , Maxi Rodriguez

Imagine this fucking squad...

They should have came back with the trophy

one of the strongest squads in Argentina history

 

[SeloBarca]

Names doesnt make a team.
Many players played like shit that year, mainly the defence, and Higuain bottling everything as usual.
Same thing in 2014, and 2018

 

[Mitchell1978]

You can talk about the system, Messi, the way they play, the coach but the reality is the current Argentina team lacks talent in defence, midfield and in goal.

 

[tacticvarium]

Football is a team sport in the end and South American teams are far, far behind in that regard especially compared to Europe. Also, no world class managers would have been able to win the WC with Arg in 2010 considering how good Spain, Dutch, Germany, Portugal, Uruguay etc. were back then.

 

[Beast]

Names doesnt make a team.
Many players played like shit that year, mainly the defence, and Higuain bottling everything as usual.
Same thing in 2014, and 2018

Not really and they are better than most of what they have now
Higuain that season was great , coming second behind Messi in la liga even scoring more than Ronaldo
plus you don't actually need him there was Milito , Tevez etc
a proper manager would have gone far with this team , the best team after Peckermann 2006 team

You can talk about the system, Messi, the way they play, the coach but the reality is the current Argentina team lacks talent in defence, midfield and in goal.

hard to say if it's the players or the system put by the managers , for many years those same players were great with their clubs see Mascherano for example , Otamendi , Garay etc
they do get worse with Argentina so it's a system /tactic / manager

Football is a team sport in the end and South American teams are far, far behind in that regard especially compared to Europe. Also, no world class managers would have been able to win the WC with Arg in 2010 considering how good Spain, Dutch, Germany, Portugal, Uruguay etc. were back then.

Talent to talent they are better than Uruguay , Portugal and many of those names even Germany that year.. it's just they crashed out in a weird fashion

 

[JerseyAddict]

We have aeen what Arg can do without Messi in Wac qualifiers. They almost floped and he had to return and save their "great names" asses...

 

[BarcaOG]

Hey Bro , great to see you here still
yeah the twins are my life and favorite time consuming activity now... funny how kids change your life completely

BEAST!! one of my favourite posters of all time! i thought youd left for good ):

glad you are around once more

 

[Beast]

BEAST!! one of my favourite posters of all time! i thought youd left for good ):

glad you are around once more

 

[xXKonan]

Brazil is leading Peru 3-0 so far.

But seems a bit redundant to play Firmino as a 9 with Cou as a #10, as both want to occupy the same spaces.

 

[SeloBarca]

Coutinho is doing better in the AM position..what a shocker