Cr150

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

The international career of both were good, not average but also not special. I mean both have scored so many winning goals/ assist. Its a tragedy that Messi didnt got his credit for his performances, atleast one copa should have been won. Messi was by far the best player of argentinia in the last 10 years and Ronaldo was it for portugal. We shouldnt forget that Zidane or R9 had a much better team for the WC's than Messi or Ronaldo so of course it was easier to shine.

 

[Morten]

I would, truthfully. The major beating stick Ronaldo has against Messi is his goalscoring form in CL against the biggest sides, an impressing achievement he managed to sustain even past his prime, well into his 30s. Nothing else. Similarly, Messi has a higher peak than whatever Ronaldo showed at his best. Not much else for him either.

Peak for peak or prime vs prime, I side with Messi. Past their primes, Ronaldo is better. Here, his competitiveness and fitness dedication are unbeatable and win out in the end.



That's right. Because people acted as if Messi and Ronaldo were some sort of gods who carried weak sides to incredible glory. The reality is that all of the big titles they've won, and they've won a lot over the last 15 years, have been won in absolutely stacked teams.

Put up the first 11 of the Barca and Madrid sides that won CL with Messi and Ronaldo in them, and you will see only world-class players on each position.

It was expected that once you take them out of their superteam environment and you ask them to play in inferior sides, they're gonna struggle to be as decisive. And struggle they did. Not struggled to be top players, because Ronaldo and Messi still were by far the best players in their teams, but struggled to make their teams play outside of their level.

It works both ways though, Brazilian Ronaldo played in an absolutely stacked national team, taking nothing away from his performances, of course, just saying.

Anyway, international football has turned into a stat-padding fest, because FIFA simply cant stop finding excuses to host more and more games.
Thats the real reason Cristiano will be the top scorer in international football(along with being a very good scorer, of course), if Gerd Muller had 170 games with Germany nobody would catch him, brazilian Ronaldo would be out of reach too, just a few examples.

 

[BarcaOG]

"Ronaldo has played 15 games against the ‘big five’ European nations – 2 vs England, 3 vs France, 3 vs Germany, 2 vs Italy and 5 vs Spain – but only scored against Spain, getting a celebrated hat-trick against La Roja at the 2018 FIFA World Cup."

So, in 14 out of 15 big games against Europe's best, he's come up with 0 goals.

Messi's record is meh too, but my point is you and a lot of CR7 fanboys are doing cartwheels over his international goal record/success for no reason. Look above.

i'm not? at no point have i said that CR somehow has a stellar NT career. he does not. all i'm saying is that on that front he has an edge over messi because at least he won trophies. that is all.

 

[KingLeo10]

It works both ways though, Brazilian Ronaldo played in an absolutely stacked national team, taking nothing away from his performances, of course, just saying.

Anyway, international football has turned into a stat-padding fest, because FIFA simply cant stop finding excuses to host more and more games.
Thats the real reason Cristiano will be the top scorer in international football(along with being a very good scorer, of course), if Gerd Muller had 170 games with Germany nobody would catch him, brazilian Ronaldo would be out of reach too, just a few examples.

Brazilian Ronaldo played in a stacked team in which he was a major reason (not the whole of course) for it being stacked...because he was a killer against big nations on the biggest stages. He absolutely wrecked the Copa 96/97? and 98 and 02 WCs.

A similar argument applies to Messi and CR7 on the club level. We don't have THE GOAT in football because no one's dominated the game extensively on both the club and NT level. I guess you could say Beckenabuer and Cruyff but their club level domination was nowhere near Messi or CR7.

 

[BarcaOG]

I would, truthfully. The major beating stick Ronaldo has against Messi is his goalscoring form in CL against the biggest sides, an impressing achievement he managed to sustain even past his prime, well into his 30s. Nothing else. Similarly, Messi has a higher peak than whatever Ronaldo showed at his best. Not much else for him either.

Peak for peak or prime vs prime, I side with Messi. Past their primes, Ronaldo is better. Here, his competitiveness and fitness dedication are unbeatable and win out in the end.



That's right. Because people acted as if Messi and Ronaldo were some sort of gods who carried weak sides to incredible glory. The reality is that all of the big titles they've won, and they've won a lot over the last 15 years, have been won in absolutely stacked teams.

Put up the first 11 of the Barca and Madrid sides that won CL with Messi and Ronaldo in them, and you will see only world-class players on each position.

It was expected that once you take them out of their superteam environment and you ask them to play in inferior sides, they're gonna struggle to be as decisive. And struggle they did. Not struggled to be top players, because Ronaldo and Messi still were by far the best players in their teams, but struggled to make their teams play outside of their level.

right, then we are basically on the same page! i don't see a disagreement here between us

 

[serghei]

Brazilian Ronaldo played in a stacked team in which he was a major reason (not the whole of course) for it being stacked...because he was a killer against big nations on the biggest stages. He absolutely wrecked the Copa 96/97? and 98 and 02 WCs.

A similar argument applies to Messi and CR7 on the club level. We don't have THE GOAT in football because no one's dominated the game extensively on both the club and NT level. I guess you could say Beckenabuer and Cruyff but their club level domination was nowhere near Messi or CR7.

I think especially Rivaldo was nearly as deadly at the time for Brazil. Ronaldinho was great as well. They were stacked with attacking talent no doubt by 2002.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

I think especially Rivaldo was nearly as deadly at the time for Brazil. Ronaldinho was great as well. They were stacked with attacking talent no doubt by 2002.

Zidane destroyed this team on his own in 2006.

[URL

This wasnt Zidane vs Brazil, this was brazil vs Zidane

 

[serghei]

Zidane destroyed this team on his own in 2006.

[URL

This wasnt Zidane vs Brazil, this was brazil vs Zidane

Yea, but Brazil were already declined by 2006. 4 years is a lot in football. France were the buffoons of WC 2002 for example.

 

[KingLeo10]

France 2006 was a stacked NT too. Henry, Ribery, Vieira, Makelele, Abidal, Thuram...

 

[serghei]

France 2006 was a stacked NT too. Henry, Ribery, Vieira, Makelele, Abidal, Thuram...

Yea, everything points to the collective force being the common denominator of great, dominating teams. Zidane for example was arguably at his best in 2002, more than in 2006, but he couldn't do anything to save France from being the big embarrassment of Korea & Japan. In WC 98, Euro 00 and 06 France were much better, and Zidane rose to the top.

You need to have elite players in every area to have a chance to win the really big titles, like World Cups, Euros, Champions Leagues.

 

[Rory]

Euros he won was a joke, finishing third in a group should knock you out. Imagine finishing 13th in the league but qualifying for the champions league

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Yea, but Brazil were already declined by 2006. 4 years is a lot in football. France were the buffoons of WC 2002 for example.

Yeah thats true

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

You need to have elite players in every area to have a chance to win the really big titles, like World Cups, Euros, Champions Leagues.

True even Maradona needed his team mates. Give Maradona this argentinia team and he will win nothing.

 

[BBZ8800]

I think especially Rivaldo was nearly as deadly at the time for Brazil. Ronaldinho was great as well. They were stacked with attacking talent no doubt by 2002.

Ronaldinho emerged in 2002.

About R9, he should had won 2 world cups: 1998 and 2002. (He was an unused sub in 1994 as a 17 years old).
He was a one man show in 1998 but suffered some seizure attack a few hours before a final and played as if he is scared that he will die in any moment.

In 1998, KO matches:
Chile 4:1, 2 goals
Denmark 3:2
Netherlands 1:1, 1 goal
France 0:3

2002, KO matches:
Belgium 2:0, 1 goal
England 2:1
Turkey 1:0, 1 goal
Germany 2:0, 2 goals

7 KO matches goals, only 1 penaldo against Chile in 1998.
In 2 semis and 2 finals in 1998 and 2002, Brasil scored 4 goals.
Ronaldo9 scored all 4 goals.
All 4 from an open play.

 

[KingLeo10]

Ronaldinho emerged in 2002.

About R9, he should had won 2 world cups: 1998 and 2002. (He was an unused sub in 1994 as a 17 years old).
He was a one man show in 1998 but suffered some seizure attack a few hours before a final and played as if he is scared that he will die in any moment.

In 1998, KO matches:
Chile 4:1, 2 goals
Denmark 3:2
Netherlands 1:1, 1 goal
France 0:3

2002, KO matches:
Belgium 2:0, 1 goal
England 2:1
Turkey 1:0, 1 goal
Germany 2:0, 2 goals

7 KO matches goals, only 1 penaldo against Chile in 1998.
In 2 semis and 2 finals in 1998 and 2002, Brasil scored 4 goals.
Ronaldo9 scored all 4 goals.
All 4 from an open play.

Meanwhile, Messi and CR7 have 0 KO goals between them in the WC in 16 years.