Cricket

[GiantKiller]

I'm only pointing out the fact because your eager to point out the deficiencies of the Indian batsman playing swing, that's why I'm trying to tell you thats its not just us but you'll as well. In fact all teams in the sub continent. Interesting how your statement becomes vague after you get owned Even if you were only talking about the last match then its unfair to say we didn't bowl in the right areas because the help from the pitch in the second innings was non-existent so we naturally wouldn't have got the same purchase off the pitch as your bowlers did, bowling in the right areas.

He may have played a test series, but did he play against us? No. Hence he is a mysterious bowler to us. Yes he may be a orthodox bowler with a straight forward action, but just like you'll struggled against Kumar (who fits your description of a non-mystery bowler) we struggled against Junaid.

:O *Sigh* Wrongly putting all blame on Dhoni and turning a blind eye to the obvious is what makes me so 'eager', even though I'm not. Funny, huh? Also, where did I deny or even give a hint of denial that Pak, or any other subcontinent team for that matter, is not vulnerable to good swing bowling? I didn't do that anywhere. Why? Because I realize it's true and more importantly, discussing that would result in us digressing. Comprende? Also, I didn't precisely say that I was vague. I mentioned it as a possibility. I don't like repeating myself multiple times, ya'know. What is also amusing is that you can only come up with a video of a four-over performance of only one bowler and come to a conclusion about your bowling attack as a whole.

Are you sure about you getting no assistance from the pitch? You just watched the highlights, did you not? So, you must definitely remember how Hafeez was dismissed. Now, keep that in mind and then look at how someone like Ishant Sharma, for example, performed with the bowl.

:O:O Oh man. Looks like I've to repeat myself. Again. Look mate, it doesn't matter if Junaid played against you or not simply because he's not an unusual bowler like Malinga or Mendis in whose case first hand experience becomes admittedly crucial. I've already differentiated between Kumar and Junaid. Kumar was a debutant, was he not? Junaid, meanwhile, has so far played eight tests, fourteen ODIs, and three T20s. Go figure.

Reflecting back, it seems as if we were destined to have this discussion. Hahaha.

 

[Doobs]

Dhoni isn't even relavant to the argument, I'm not putting any blame on him, it's the media and that other dude who posted earlier. Oh so now it's not vague, but a "possibility" you should read your posts. The video on Kumar was to show to you that your statement on the Indian bowlers not bowling accurately was wrong, and also to drive home the point that even you'll struggled against a bowler that you'll hadn't faced before.

Yes, I'm sure. The pitch completely eased out in the second innings and batting was a lot easier. Our performance wasn't great, never said it was good but like I said earlier the toss definitely gave you'll a massive advantage.

Look bro, its not that hard to understand. I'm only using your logic, Junaid is a orthodox bowler similar to Kumar, yes? According to you an orthodox bowler shouldn't be hard to read, yes? Well, you'll too struggled against Kumar and all i'm saying is that we struggled with Junaid similarly. Junaid may have played against other teams, but that doesn't mean we could have figured him out because eight tests, fourteen ODIs, and three T20s aren't enough to know his bowling patterns and it's not like we knew he would play for sure. Besides, you'll could also have done your homework on Kumar

Yes, indeed.

 

[GiantKiller]

Dhoni isn't even relavant to the argument, I'm not putting any blame on him, it's the media and that other dude who posted earlier. Oh so now it's not vague, but a "possibility" you should read your posts. The video on Kumar was to show to you that your statement on the Indian bowlers not bowling accurately was wrong, and also to drive home the point that even you'll struggled against a bowler that you'll hadn't faced before.

Dhoni is the person I'm basing my opinions on, so I don't see how he's irrelevant. Seems to me that we're having and not having this discussion and the longer it gets, the more awkward convincing each other becomes. :O Yes, me being vague could've been a possibility. Here's exactly what I said : " Forgive me for being vague if that's the case but my intentions were the same " I wonder what the word 'if' is doing there. :O

You're still using that video to make conclusion about your whole bowling attack. If it's only Kumar, then I'll be willing to agree but I disagree since it's on the contrary.

Yes, I'm sure. The pitch completely eased out in the second innings and batting was a lot easier. Our performance wasn't great, never said it was good but like I said earlier the toss definitely gave you'll a massive advantage.

The score after the first powerplay while Pak was batting was 21/1. I'm not really sure how that indicates that batting was a lot easier.

Look bro, its not that hard to understand. I'm only using your logic, Junaid is a orthodox bowler similar to Kumar, yes? According to you an orthodox bowler shouldn't be hard to read, yes? Well, you'll too struggled against Kumar and all i'm saying is that we struggled with Junaid similarly. Junaid may have played against other teams, but that doesn't mean we could have figured him out because eight tests, fourteen ODIs, and three T20s aren't enough to know his bowling patterns and it's not like we knew he would play for sure. Besides, you'll could also have done your homework on Kumar

Yes, indeed.

Junaid and Kumar are orthodox bowlers, yes. An orthodox bowler should be easier to read when compared to unconventional bowlers like Mendis or Malinga, yes. Once again, Junaids' and Kumars' cases are different. The latter was a debutant while the former is an orthodox bowler who's played 25 matches in three different formats. Surely that should be enough to analyse an orthodox given that you don't need first hand experience. Add to that the many different analytical methods nowadays and it doesn't look that complex to me. Not knowing whether he would play is not really saying much as you shouldn't leave your homework incomplete . I don't see how we could've prepared ourselves for a bowler playing his first match. :O

 

[Doobs]

I'm done with this Dhoni thing I don't even know what your talking about

Our bowling attack was fine we managed to win the 2nd T20 with good bowling in the death overs.

You were chasing a target that wasn't very big, so a slow start really made no difference.

You could have used the same analytical methods to prepare yourselves for Kumar, He's played a bunch of domestic cricket which is widely telecast.

Anyway, that was the first match of three, there's a long way to go. We'll see what happens when the dust settles
For now, Happy New Year!

 

[GiantKiller]

I was explaining why entirely blaming Dhoni was wrong. That's all. It wasn't directed to anyone who posted in this thread but it was something I observed in the Indian media.

We didn't bowl well in the second T20 and the reason we lost it in the end was because we realized that target in the end was a little too big partly because of your batting and partly because of our poor bowling.

Yeah, I agree. I was just trying to point out that the wicket wasn't so easy to bat on in the first ten of fifteen overs and the fact that was small made things easier, obviously. You should've scored around 250, I think.

Ah, so you finally got my point but what you mentioned would be too bothersome, for me at least lol.

Definitely. :beer2:

 

[Doobs]

Just because I didn't continue the argument, doesn't mean I agree with you

I guess we could say the same about Junaid? lol

:beer2:

 

[GiantKiller]

What're you talking about? :O

>.>

 

[Doobs]

Congrats to Pak, they played well and deserved to win. :beer2:

 

[GiantKiller]

Congrats to Pak, they played well and deserved to win. :beer2:

 

[Doobs]

Come back when you have 2 WC's.

 

[MrXavi_The_Midfield_King]

For India this defeat inflicted on them by their arch rivals could be the kick in the backside India needs and start improving as a team again, as for Pakistan this could be the start for them to start competing for Number 1 spot in ODI and Test format

 

[AnfieldEd]

Pakistan will never be No.1 in test cricket. When was the last time they won a test match away from the sub continent?

Pakistan will be one of these teams that can beat the best but also lose to the worst.

In the next 5 years I don't see any other country challenging S.Africa, England and Australia for the top 3 spots, let alone No.1

 

[MrXavi_The_Midfield_King]

Pakistan will never be No.1 in test cricket. When was the last time they won a test match away from the sub continent?

Pakistan will be one of these teams that can beat the best but also lose to the worst.

In the next 5 years I don't see any other country challenging S.Africa, England and Australia for the top 3 spots, let alone No.1

Dont see how that is not a possibilty for them, their bowling attack is one of the most well rounded around, plus they will have M. Amir back, if the batting improves they will most certainly have a chance

 

[AURELIUS]

India needs a revamp from top to bottom in terms of structure. For their playing numbers they should be top all the time. This obsession with 20/20 cricket doesn't help. Curators and captains need to help nurture spinners which once was a formidable asset of an Indian team.

Many of the people involved at the BCCI have no business at all doing with anything cricket related but then again this seems to be a core problem in many sports in India.

South Africa have rolled New Zealand over again who are minus Southee. It was an embarrassing capitulation from the Black Caps but then again SA can field 3 pacemen of class in Steyn, Morkel and Philander.

Here in England it has been a rather sad time with the loss of one of the voices of an English summer and the epitome of an English gentleman in Christopher Martin-Jenkins. His knowledge and erudition will be sorely missed as will his ability to encapsulate the state of a game with a few precise words a lesson many other commentators who ramble on and on would do well to follow.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/9774049/Christopher-Martin-Jenkins.html

And this just a few days after the loss of Tony Greig. Not everyones cup of tea but people who speak their minds rarely are as they tend to ruffle feathers. Again his characteristic tones and no nonsense but colourful (he's hit that right out of the meat of the bat) commentary will be missed. More so I guess by Australian cricket followers. He was a no nonsense English (via South Africa)captain blessed with very good all round skills and a leader whose partnership with Kerry Packer laid the foundation for much of today's cricket scene.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/599045.html

 

[GiantKiller]

Come back when you have 2 WC's.

.... Oh, btw...

Spoiler: something

Come back when you've beaten us in the legendary Eden Gardens.

In the next 5 years I don't see any other country challenging S.Africa, England and Australia for the top 3 spots, let alone No.1

Pakistan have quite a few talented youngsters who, with the right guidance, will surely be able to establish themselves in Test cricket. Add to that the bowling strength and I'd be willing to agree if it's RSA and England only and not Australia. The Aussies are in a rebuilding phase and the stage at which the transition is at will be known when they tour India.

Here in England it has been a rather sad time with the loss of one of the voices of an English summer and the epitome of an English gentleman in Christopher Martin-Jenkins. His knowledge and erudition will be sorely missed as will his ability to encapsulate the state of a game with a few precise words a lesson many other commentators who ramble on and on would do well to follow.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/9774049/Christopher-Martin-Jenkins.html

And this just a few days after the loss of Tony Greig. Not everyones cup of tea but people who speak their minds rarely are as they tend to ruffle feathers. Again his characteristic tones and no nonsense but colourful (he's hit that right out of the meat of the bat) commentary will be missed. More so I guess by Australian cricket followers. He was a no nonsense English (via South Africa)captain blessed with very good all round skills and a leader whose partnership with Kerry Packer laid the foundation for much of today's cricket scene.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/599045.html

Yes. It's great loss indeed and their presence will be definitely missed. I really enjoyed listening to Tony Greigs' commentary.

Btw, I didn't know you where a cricket fan too, AURELIUS. A very pleasant surprise.