Cristiano Ronaldo - v1

[MaxY]

If Ronaldo's stats are slightly better than why is he considered such a clear favourite this time? Invisible yet scores goals, plays no important part in big matches, the team would have won the same finals without him, couldnt help Portugal. So what makes him such a clear favourite besides the third most annoying pr campaign in football history?
Him and Ribery last year being 1/2 by the way.

He couldn't help Portugal ? He's the sole reason that Portugal got to the World Cup and that they are even considered strong . He's the all-time best scorer with 23 goals scored either in qualifiers or at the tournament proper. He scored 4 goals in 2 games vs Sweden and got them to World Cup. Not to mention that he assisted for the goal in 90+ that gave Portugal a glimmer of hope for passing the groups.

 

[messi2140]

Would Ronaldinho be considered an average player if he had his best years now at Barcelona ?

 

[6 Ballons for Messi]

Would Ronaldinho be considered an average player if he had his best years now at Barcelona ?

Obviously.
Zidane as well.
Some guys just don't understand football, nothing we can do about that.

 

[Kerrybai]

He couldn't help Portugal ? He's the sole reason that Portugal got to the World Cup and that they are even considered strong . He's the all-time best scorer with 23 goals scored either in qualifiers or at the tournament proper. He scored 4 goals in 2 games vs Sweden and got them to World Cup. Not to mention that he assisted for the goal in 90+ that gave Portugal a glimmer of hope for passing the groups.

To be fair though he also choked hard against Ghana and in qualifying couldn't lead his country past the likes of Northern Ireland and Israel.

 

[KingLeo10]

as expected, goals paint a misleading picture in terms of gauging effectiveness. cristiano at the moment plays in a team with an established rhythm and co-ordinates his runs very well with the midfield and the other forwards. this makes the task of scoring a bit easier. the same was true for messi during 2011-2012 la liga and the first half of 2012-2013 la liga under tito when he was absolutely demolishing the liga scoring records. if you observe his goals scored during that time period, he had a respectable number of genius solo goals but a fair amount of goals came from smart 1-2 plays with a teammate followed by a crisp finish. the overall point is, the strength of teamplay has contributed quite a bit towards each player's amazing goal scoring run. However, it must be noted that messi's amazing run was more efficient, more voluminous, and stretched longer than cristiano's. whether cristiano can keep up the pace remains to be seen.

For me, the truly impressive goal scoring records aren't absolute numbers. Ronaldo's 47 goals for Barca in his debut season was an out of this world return in my opinion since half of these were solo goals. Similarly, I think messi's return of over a goal per game (in all competitions) is as impressive as the stats from his perceived prime (08-2012?)considering we have a severely defunct midfield and a defense that doesn't convince. Cristiano and Madrid fans will more likely than not win today's argument on who is the better player if they rely simply on absolute numbers. Many of messi's fans also based their argument on raw statistics in previous years and while I can't say either party is flat out wrong in doing so, I think more football purists than not will agree Messi is greater. When judged by the benchmark of Cruyff, Maradona etc. Messi belongs there. He has that ability which isn't captured by statistics.

 

[raskolnikov]

He couldn't help Portugal ? He's the sole reason that Portugal got to the World Cup and that they are even considered strong . He's the all-time best scorer with 23 goals scored either in qualifiers or at the tournament proper. He scored 4 goals in 2 games vs Sweden and got them to World Cup. Not to mention that he assisted for the goal in 90+ that gave Portugal a glimmer of hope for passing the groups.

Thats another thing, so called genius can't deliver against the likes of Israël, Norther Ireland, Azerbaijan and Luxembourg they finish behind Russia.
So far its a complete failure right? then he delivers against Sweden in a play off and its considered his Maradona against England type international performance and the sole reason for his previous award right?

Its like Thomas Edison failing his exams badly then aces it the second time and receives mad praise for it while that should have been done in the first place.

This all has no effect on his world cup performance though.
Against Germany I dont really blame him much, but he was invisble and selfish with the freekicks from midfield positions. The other two games he was jus selfishly bad as well.
One gift goal from a bought of goalie while having the most shots on target of all the players in the group stage.
That is a dissapointing performance from the best player in the world right? Actually since ec 2012 he only delivered in the sweden play off.

Take that into mind when looking at his club performances, the trophies are a Real team performance for which they were very lucky in the cl.
Most of his goals were made in 2013 so that doesnt count, what remains is mainly Sergio Ramos delivering them cl, him scoring a lot of goals when the game is done and being unable to stand up in the big games in la liga.

So what is a positive note for him? only the stats, more goals and better ratio than anyone, kudos to him for that. But when you take into account the amount of penalties, dives, tap ins, time of the goals and Real's overal domination/victories/goals it should not be a reason for himbeing considered such a huge a favourite.
And it definitely doesnt make him the best player in the world.

 

[dakt]

Nailed it, raskolnikov.

And I would just add, stats aside...do you people even watch Messi play? Because if you do, you wouldn't even start the debate. It's simple as that.

 

[Deco 20]

He couldn't help Portugal ? He's the sole reason that Portugal got to the World Cup and that they are even considered strong . He's the all-time best scorer with 23 goals scored either in qualifiers or at the tournament proper. He scored 4 goals in 2 games vs Sweden and got them to World Cup. Not to mention that he assisted for the goal in 90+ that gave Portugal a glimmer of hope for passing the groups.

Portugal would've won with Walcott in attack

 

[Blaugrana Bull]

While I agree with most of the arguments against Ronaldo you cannot hold the success of his team against him. He is one of the most important players for Real and imo you should honor winning. BUT others won more or were more successful with their national teams while also having great years with their respective clubs.

In my book Leo and Cristiano would both have less wins anyway.

2008: Cristiano
2009: Messi
2010: Xavi
2011: Messi
2012: Iniesta
2013: Ribery (or another Bayern player.)
2014: Lahm

 

[raskolnikov]

While I agree with most of the arguments against Ronaldo you cannot hold the success of his team against him. He is one of the most important players for Real and imo you should honor winning. BUT others won more or were more successful with their national teams while also having great years with their respective clubs.

In my book Leo and Cristiano would both have less wins anyway.

2008: Cristiano
2009: Messi
2010: Xavi
2011: Messi
2012: Iniesta
2013: Ribery (or another Bayern player.)
2014: Lahm

Why? team awards are just luck sometimes and or very close, you cant name a player the best player in the world just because his team won an important trophy.
Look at Cannavaro for example in 2006, this means you can be average whole season long but if your team wins an award and you happen to be the best player on the team you win an award for best footballer in the world.

In reality an individual award in a teamsport in stupid, but even if it has to excist there has to be a clear definition of what makes someone deserve to win, there isnt.
Therefore it always was the opinion of journalists, since 2009 it has been a popularity contest, media plays a big part of how you are viewed at moments in time.
And thanks to Ronaldo whining for Real/Perez support after losing best player of Europe award to Iniesta the pr campaign has become the most important factor.
It caused jorunalists to clearly rank Ribery over Messi for the Europe award and Ronaldo to win last time, will win it this time again mainly due to this.

I honestly care very little about the award, always hated it ever since Henry never won it. I dont care if Ronaldo wins 10.
What bothers me more along with him breaking some of Messi's record is what it represents and what it does to football history.
People act like the stats and awards make him equal or better than Messi, when there is clearly a huge gap in quality. Anyone who ignores stats and just watches them sees its not clear at all.
Yet these opinions are formed constantly and it will get worse due to these awards and records.

It gets frustrating at times when people comapare arguably the best player to ever grace the game to what is the Salieri to his Mozart.
I know sanity is not statistical, allthough a concensus can be changed I feel in the end a football purist will remain a voice in the wilderness in this discussion in 20 years.

 

[Yugi]

lol guys

Messi vs Ronaldo si soooooo 2011, this isn´t even challenge anymore, wrap it up

 

[Morten]

According to whoscored Ronaldo has created the most clear chances this season so far, of all players in the top 5 leagues in Europe. Fabregas have 16 assist, but some of them came from setpieces, i dont believe all of them count as clear chances or something, dont ask me i dont know. Take it for what its worth.

 

[Icarium]

What? Last time I checked he is not even in top 5.

 

[linetty]

What they mean by 'clear cut' though? Because Messi has certainly more chances created in general.

 

[Mitchell1978]

as expected, goals paint a misleading picture in terms of gauging effectiveness. cristiano at the moment plays in a team with an established rhythm and co-ordinates his runs very well with the midfield and the other forwards. this makes the task of scoring a bit easier. the same was true for messi during 2011-2012 la liga and the first half of 2012-2013 la liga under tito when he was absolutely demolishing the liga scoring records. if you observe his goals scored during that time period, he had a respectable number of genius solo goals but a fair amount of goals came from smart 1-2 plays with a teammate followed by a crisp finish. the overall point is, the strength of teamplay has contributed quite a bit towards each player's amazing goal scoring run. However, it must be noted that messi's amazing run was more efficient, more voluminous, and stretched longer than cristiano's. whether cristiano can keep up the pace remains to be seen.

For me, the truly impressive goal scoring records aren't absolute numbers. Ronaldo's 47 goals for Barca in his debut season was an out of this world return in my opinion since half of these were solo goals. Similarly, I think messi's return of over a goal per game (in all competitions) is as impressive as the stats from his perceived prime (08-2012?)considering we have a severely defunct midfield and a defense that doesn't convince. Cristiano and Madrid fans will more likely than not win today's argument on who is the better player if they rely simply on absolute numbers. Many of messi's fans also based their argument on raw statistics in previous years and while I can't say either party is flat out wrong in doing so, I think more football purists than not will agree Messi is greater. When judged by the benchmark of Cruyff, Maradona etc. Messi belongs there. He has that ability which isn't captured by statistics.

Good post, not to take anything away from CR7 (his la liga stats this season are very impressive with or without penalties) but so are Messi's this season. Apart from maybe 3 or 4 games he has been great this year.