Croatia

[El Flaco]

So it seems the incident from yesterday wasn't done at random.

Found a great summary about the background of this.

Before I even begin, let me say that the culprits have been identified and their pictures together with their names are being circulated via social media. Needless to say, the Croatian nation is furious; 'they want blood'. Amongst the incensed are the players (Perisic said the game was 'bullshit'), the coach (who called the perpetrators 'terrorists'), public figures, and even the Croatian president. Immediately after the match, the media published the pictures of the wrongdoers and asked the public to help with identification.

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Who did it and why?

In short, extremist football club supporters ('hooligans', 'ultras') who are unhappy with how the Croatian Football Federation (FF) is run and the (supposed) corruption within. They don't like the leadership with whom they are at war for years now. What happened today is their attempt at trying to force their way, embarrass the Croatian FF officials and incite outrage in the football world. By doing so, they hoped to disqualify the Croatian national football team from the EURO competition. They think this (amongst other things) will put enough pressure on the people they want to step down to step down.

This is not the first time they've done something like this and they are adamant to continue until their requests are satisfied. You might remember Croatia being punished/fined/disqualified 15+ times in the recent years due to disturbances such as this one (riots, clashes with the police, racism, pitch invasions, etc). Especially prominent was the swastika mowed into the Split stadium field the night before the EURO 2016 qualifier match against Italy.

Again, it is important to understand that these are not random acts of boredom or drunkenness; they are planned and precisely orchestrated to further an agenda.

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Who specifically in the Croatian FF is the problem for them?

Mainly, Zdravko Mamic and Davor Suker.

Zdravko is the de facto director of the Croatian FF and Dinamo Zagreb football club.

Davor is the formal president of the Croatian FF and a member of the UEFA Executive Committee.

Shortly, the two most powerful characters in the world of Croatian football.

Zdravko is being accused of setting up unfair player contracts, purchasing referee decisions, tax evasion, ignoring supporters' wishes to participate in the club decision making, and interfering with the Croatian national football team. Some media outlets have published this picture of Zdravko giving instructions to the coach Ante Cacic before today's game. Some people claim he is the decision maker of who gets to be the coach of the national team and which players get to play. He is also criticised of selling hundreds of millions of euros worth of football potential from 'his' club (Modric, Corluka, Mandzukic, Eduardo da Silva, Sammir, Halilovic, Kovacic, Pranjic, Badelj, etc.) instead of increasing squad strength by keeping the players and competing in the major European tournaments (he defends himself by saying he creates great players and that he props up the Croatian economy by paying millions in taxes as well). As a result the club is seen as the transition point between Croatian meagreness and European superstar clubs; the general sentiment being that if you are a player and you want to succeed, you have to go through Mamic.

Davor is similarly accused of corruption and being a right hand to/of Zdravko.

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So what's the issue then? Get these people out of the football?

The 'issue' is that the current FF leadership is supported by many (including politicians) and that there is no proof of the accusations.

Though, Zdravko Mamic is currently under several investigations for the above, and indeed was jailed multiple times under allegations that didn't last long. Zdravko consistently claims he's a victim of his political enemies in power. He is currently under a court order to stay away from club duties (now acts as a 'club advisor'), but his involvement with the FF remains uninhibited.

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Other important points/facts:

* Davor Suker claims Croatia will get away with a warning/fine for what happened today and continue the tournament unhampered otherwise

* The two supporter divisions apparently involved are Bad Blue Boys of Dinamo Zagreb and Torcida of Hajduk Split, otherwise diametrically opposed and fierce enemies

* The interruption of the match was planned long ahead and Croatian intelligence agencies (and later the media) warned the French days in advance
St Etienne supporters are said to have purchased match tickets for the Croatian hooligans under random names; there were no ID checks at stadium entrances

* The amount of pyrotechnics brought on this time must serve as a caution to the French; there are people that would be willing to carry through something much more sinister than a firecracker

 

[BBZ8800]

Actualy Torcida seems to be the one here.

BBB and Torcida (for guys outside of Croatia, Bad Blue Boys are fans of Dinamo and Torcida are fans from the 2nd biggest club, Hajduk Split) work together on this.
On some pages of BBB's on Facebook, you can see posts how they are proud of this, how they support this etc

Also, majority of extreme fans of BBBs and Torcida are friends to some extent, and majority of them knew that this was going to happen.
Also, on Facebook comments on some guys who are my friends, you can "read between the lines" that they have more info that this was planned, that this is only a beginning, and that they won't stop (not these 2 guys, but BBB and Torcida in general).

So, even if majority of these guys were Torcida or something, BBBs and Torcida worked together, and they planned this and they are proud of this.

 

[Gaudi]

If you're from Sweden as your flag says you can't understand the level of corruption and crime in all pores of Croatia, including, of course sport. I'm saying you should be thankfull for that of course ...but this "fans" are actualy helping those criminals...
It's difficult to explain this by reading couple of posts, you just have to see it to belive it.

So, let's better focus on the game itself

 

[Gaudi]

BBB and Torcida (for guys outside of Croatia, Bad Blue Boys are fans of Dinamo and Torcida are fans from the 2nd biggest club, Hajduk Split) work together on this.
On some pages of BBB's on Facebook, you can see posts how they are proud of this, how they support this etc

Also, majority of extreme fans of BBBs and Torcida are friends to some extent, and majority of them knew that this was going to happen.
Also, on Facebook comments on some guys who are my friends, you can "read between the lines" that they have more info that this was planned, that this is only a beginning, and that they won't stop (not these 2 guys, but BBB and Torcida in general).

So, even if majority of these guys were Torcida or something, BBBs and Torcida worked together, and they planned this and they are proud of this.

those posts are from Zagreb...not France, trolling.
Being supportive of this and doing this are two very different things.

 

[BBZ8800]

Before I even begin, let me say that the culprits have been identified and their pictures together with their names are being circulated via social media. Needless to say, the Croatian nation is furious; 'they want blood'. Amongst the incensed are the players (Perisic said the game was 'bullshit'), the coach (who called the perpetrators 'terrorists'), public figures, and even the Croatian president. Immediately after the match, the media published the pictures of the wrongdoers and asked the public to help with identification.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who did it and why?

In short, extremist football club supporters ('hooligans', 'ultras') who are unhappy with how the Croatian Football Federation (FF) is run and the (supposed) corruption within. They don't like the leadership with whom they are at war for years now. What happened today is their attempt at trying to force their way, embarrass the Croatian FF officials and incite outrage in the football world. By doing so, they hoped to disqualify the Croatian national football team from the EURO competition. They think this (amongst other things) will put enough pressure on the people they want to step down to step down.

This is not the first time they've done something like this and they are adamant to continue until their requests are satisfied. You might remember Croatia being punished/fined/disqualified 15+ times in the recent years due to disturbances such as this one (riots, clashes with the police, racism, pitch invasions, etc). Especially prominent was the swastika mowed into the Split stadium field the night before the EURO 2016 qualifier match against Italy.

Again, it is important to understand that these are not random acts of boredom or drunkenness; they are planned and precisely orchestrated to further an agenda.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who specifically in the Croatian FF is the problem for them?

Mainly, Zdravko Mamic and Davor Suker.

Zdravko is the de facto director of the Croatian FF and Dinamo Zagreb football club.

Davor is the formal president of the Croatian FF and a member of the UEFA Executive Committee.

Shortly, the two most powerful characters in the world of Croatian football.

Zdravko is being accused of setting up unfair player contracts, purchasing referee decisions, tax evasion, ignoring supporters' wishes to participate in the club decision making, and interfering with the Croatian national football team. Some media outlets have published this picture of Zdravko giving instructions to the coach Ante Cacic before today's game. Some people claim he is the decision maker of who gets to be the coach of the national team and which players get to play. He is also criticised of selling hundreds of millions of euros worth of football potential from 'his' club (Modric, Corluka, Mandzukic, Eduardo da Silva, Sammir, Halilovic, Kovacic, Pranjic, Badelj, etc.) instead of increasing squad strength by keeping the players and competing in the major European tournaments (he defends himself by saying he creates great players and that he props up the Croatian economy by paying millions in taxes as well). As a result the club is seen as the transition point between Croatian meagreness and European superstar clubs; the general sentiment being that if you are a player and you want to succeed, you have to go through Mamic.

Davor is similarly accused of corruption and being a right hand to/of Zdravko.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So what's the issue then? Get these people out of the football?

The 'issue' is that the current FF leadership is supported by many (including politicians) and that there is no proof of the accusations.

Though, Zdravko Mamic is currently under several investigations for the above, and indeed was jailed multiple times under allegations that didn't last long. Zdravko consistently claims he's a victim of his political enemies in power. He is currently under a court order to stay away from club duties (now acts as a 'club advisor'), but his involvement with the FF remains uninhibited.

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Other important points/facts:

* Davor Suker claims Croatia will get away with a warning/fine for what happened today and continue the tournament unhampered otherwise

* The two supporter divisions apparently involved are Bad Blue Boys of Dinamo Zagreb and Torcida of Hajduk Split, otherwise diametrically opposed and fierce enemies

* The interruption of the match was planned long ahead and Croatian intelligence agencies (and later the media) warned the French days in advance
St Etienne supporters are said to have purchased match tickets for the Croatian hooligans under random names; there were no ID checks at stadium entrances

* The amount of pyrotechnics brought on this time must serve as a caution to the French; there are people that would be willing to carry through something much more sinister than a firecracker

This summary is good to some extent, but you can read here only about "problems", or about Mamic and Suker.
So, in a simplified way, those hooligans or someone from the outside could reply: Ok, then just sack Mamic and Suker and everything will be fine.

Well, that is the problem.
I have written in a post on a topic Euro 2016 that Croatia is corrupted, we don't have a government currently etc.

But the thing is, imo:
1. politicians are corrupted
2. some people in football are corrupted
3. but the hooligans will always be hooligans and idiots even in a most perfect country in a world

So, yes, these hooligans have an alibi currently (Mamic), but as I have written here, those idiots were always fighting against something, and "fighting" is their purpose of life.
You pick some realistic or imaginary (or exaggerated) enemy and then you fight against it until either you die or you resolve that problem.
If you'll resolve that real or imaginary problem, then you'll just move to another real or imaginary problem.

So, when I'm reading posts from BBB's and from my friends who are supporting these hooligans, more or less their answer is:
"Just sack Mamic and a world will be fine, all problems will disappear"

But then again, BBBs and similar fans were ALWAYS fighting against something.
And to some extent, they are "proud" of it.
Their logo and their moto is something like: "we will never surrender" (even though it is questionable about whom they are fighting).
But you see, their purpose is not to surrender and to fight.
Against whom?
Well, they will always just find something to fight against since the world is filled with millions of problems and injustice.

For people outside Croatia, I will try to make some analogies of IQ and brains of those hooligans:

If they lived in USA:
-- if they wouldn't agree with general politics regarding war, guns or something
= they would just come to stadiums, burn every stadium where they go, fight with police in every town and hurt random people
Their reply is: We don't like our president, and we will fight until he will be sacked. We can't accept to live in such a world, and we will cause problems until that problem is solved

If they lived in Germany, and if they wouldn't like politics with too many immigrants in their country:
-- they would cause riots and fights in every town, with the excuse:
= we can't live like this
= we will burn everything and hurt everyone until Angela Merkel will change her opinion

If they lived in Barcelona and if they wanted the independency:
= they would burn both Barca's stadion and stadiums of all other teams until Catalonia would be independent
-- so, they would always have some excuse/injustice to cause fire and fights wherever they go
-- they want something or they don't like something, and they will just burn everything until you will listen to them

Or, if they were were fans of Barca, and they don't like Barto, lol:
-- they would cause fire and fights on every Barca's home match
-- they would fight against peaceful Barca's fans who still go to matches (they do this in Croatia sometimes. BBBs stopped going to Dinamo's matches because of Mamic, and then if you are a neutral fan and you want to go to Dinamo's home match, from time to time BBBs will be infront of stadium and threaten or kick random people who want to see Dinamo's matches. Insane idiots)
-- also, they would go to away matches in Madrid, Sevilla and other cities and they would throw flares, bottles and rocks onto a field, trying to hurt referees or players. That way Barcelona would get kicked from La liga, and they would be "happy" since they would hurt Barto in that way

Someone "normal" would now ask: But with hurting to Barto and to Barto's Barcelona, aren't you hurting to yourself, to your beloved club Barcelona, and to other neutral fans who want to watch Barcelona?
Their answer would be: it doesn't matter. We hate Barto/Mamic, and it is worth it. We will ruin our club for a few years, but it will be better on long term.

In England, these fans would whine how Man City has too much money, and then they would burn stadiums because City has too much money, and how that isn't fair.

So, yes, to some extent, Mamic is guilty.
But these idiots were creating problems under ANY president of Dinamo, they always whine because of something.
Also, every Croatian FA president is also a bad guy for them.
They don't like anyone except maybe Zvonimir Boban.

More or less, they will dislike 9 out 10 coaches, presidents, any public football persona.
One of them is connected with Mamic, the other one is incompetent, the 3rd one is from South of Croatia (and he is a fan of Hajduk Split, which is a deadly sin also) etc

Mamic is an idiot, but so are these guys.
For people who are asking for Mamic/Suker to be sacked, I would also ask: please, can you delete these guys from universe also (these hooligans)?

 

[BBZ8800]

those posts are from Zagreb...not France, trolling.
Being supportive of this and doing this are two very different things.

That guy from Zagreb is an idiot.

His Gps on Facebook said: I am in St Etieene around 1700 hours.
Then people started to attack him after attacks, since some suggested that he was one of attackers.

Then at 2100 hours, he said: I am at home, relaxing. and he attached Zagreb, Croatia intentionally in his status and tagged himself manually.
Then that guy has written: 2200 hours: why are you attacking me, I am in Zagreb the whole day.

The funny thing is, under that status at 2200 hours it said, automatic location of status "why are you attacking me, I am in Zagreb the whole day. Sent from Location: St Etienne, France"

Then one girl has written in a reply: you are such a moron, and you don't even know how to disable automatic gps location in your facebook statuses. It is clearly visible that you are in France in this moment...

Then this guy has deleted all statuses and this one with an automatic location.

I am not sure that he is trolling.
He sounds like an idiot who was discovered...

 

[Barcaman]

It's the same left-wing group tied with Udba that drew swastika on Poljud in their plan to depict Croatia as nazis and to get us kicked out of Euro. Served Milanović agenda perfectly as he can't touch Mamić legally and is using these crackheads to "hurt" him when in fact they are hurting millions of regular fans who don't give a shit about politics and just want to see players do well and make the nation proud.


Just imagine a group of 50 Catalans that don't agree with corrupt Bartomeu doing the same on Barca matches, trying to get Barca kicked out of Champions League by causing riots or drawing swastikas to depict entire Barca as nazis.
How would you, as Barca fan, feel about that.
Terrorist actions don't justify anything.

 

[Gaudi]

When pepole mention UDBA I know I'm out of here...yea right, all our problems are not done because of our criminals but because of udba, the best and most powerfull former secret service in the galaxy

 

[Stric]

UDBA, right. That's enough internet for today.

 

[BBZ8800]

It's the same left-wing group tied with Udba that drew swastika on Poljud in their plan to depict Croatia as nazis and to get us kicked out of Euro. Served Milanović agenda perfectly as he can't touch Mamić legally and is using these crackheads to "hurt" him when in fact they are hurting millions of regular fans who don't give a shit about politics and just want to see players do well and make the nation proud.

I am not sure about Milanovic, since out of my friends who are supporting extreme BBBs and these problems, one guy is a left-wing guy, while the other guy is an extreme right-wing guy who often has semi-nazi pictures, nazi-statuses and similar.
And they both share the same opinion currently now about this...

So, imo, they are just bunch of idiots (fans, hooligans) who are totally deluded and live in some parallel universe.

But on the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised that someone is paying to them also (from left or right wing politicians), everything is possible.

Just imagine a group of 50 Catalans that don't agree with corrupt Bartomeu doing the same on Barca matches, trying to get Barca kicked out of Champions League by causing riots or drawing swastikas to depict entire Barca as nazis.
How would you, as Barca fan, feel about that.
Terrorist actions don't justify anything.

This is a good analogy for guys from other parts of the world.
Mamic is something like Barto, but worse than him.

And these 50 guys are now burning Barca's stadium, canceling Barca's matches, throwing rocks at players of Real, Sevilla, Juventus, trying to get Barca expelled from a CL for a few years, trying to get Barca to lose 5-10 points in La liga, trying to cost us 20-50-100 Millions of Euros, and that way, Barca and their president (Barto, or Mamic in Dinamo) will earn less money and they hope that he will step down then.

So, as Barca fans, how would you feel now if 50 idiots would get our team expelled from a CL for 2-3 years, demoted to Segunda division and similar stuff?

Those idiots/hooligans will reply: but we are fighting for a right cause! Barto is ruining our team! He is ruining our beloved club!

So, yes, to some extent Barto/Mamic is a problem.
But these guys have totally lost a plot and are resolving a problem in a wrong way.

 

[Gaudi]

I am not sure about Milanovic, since out of my friends who are supporting extreme BBBs and these problems, one guy is a left-wing guy, while the other guy is an extreme right-wing guy who often has semi-nazi pictures, nazi-statuses and similar.
And they both share the same opinion currently now about this...

So, imo, they are just bunch of idiots (fans, hooligans) who are totally deluded and live in some parallel universe.

But on the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised that someone is paying to them also (from left or right wing politicians), everything is possible.



This is a good analogy for guys from other parts of the world.
Mamic is something like Barto, but worse than him.

And these 50 guys are now burning Barca's stadium, canceling Barca's matches, throwing rocks at players of Real, Sevilla, Juventus, trying to get Barca expelled from a CL for a few years, trying to get Barca to lose 5-10 points in La liga, trying to cost us 20-50-100 Millions of Euros, and that way, Barca and their president (Barto, or Mamic in Dinamo) will earn less money and they hope that he will step down then.

So, as Barca fans, how would you feel now if 50 idiots would get our team expelled from a CL for 2-3 years, demoted to Segunda division and similar stuff?

Those idiots/hooligans will reply: but we are fighting for a right cause! Barto is ruining our team! He is ruining our beloved club!

So, yes, to some extent Barto/Mamic is a problem.
But these guys have totally lost a plot and are resolving a problem in a wrong way.

I was basically part of the group for years...yes, 99% are far right...but trust me, this has little to do with politcs it's thier way of fightnig the fight they think they need to do. Wrong way of course but we already mentioned that.
Unfortunately people do fell powerless in Croatia not because our politicans or businessmen are corrupt, or even because they achived their wealth through suspcious things in 90ies (I'm betting 99% of welth accomulation in the world is similar) but because those who should be the last stand for justice - legal system is the most corrupt of them all.

 

[BBZ8800]

On a social media, BBB and Torcida are announcing new problems on a Spain:Croatia match.

It seems that there were some pictures on Social media for days before Croatia:Czech match with exact explanations what will happen and how will they act.
It seems that attacks should have been even bigger yesterday, but police prevent part of hooligans.

Aynway, the same idiots are already talking about similar things on Spain:Croatia match and they posted a pic for all hooligans what they should do in those moments, lol:
http://net.hr/sport/nogomet/zar-je-moguce-nakon-ceske-huligani-najavili-plan-prekida-i-utakmice-protiv-spanjolske/

The source says that hooligans from 4 teams will work together: Hajduk Split (Torcida), Dinamo (BBB), Rijeka (Armada) and Ultras Vinkovci, lol.

They don't sound like left or right wing oriented.
They sound like hooligans and terrorists.

 

[Stric]

They don't sound like left or right wing oriented.
They sound like hooligans and terrorists.

That's right. This is not political. They are only unified in their hatred of the FA.

I hope France tightens up security.

I'd honestly rather have us play in front of empty stands than have this happen again.

 

[Jenks]

If they want to kick off then they'll kick off. You can stop the pyrotechnics with enough security theoretically, but you're can't read minds. I'll be surprised if nothing happens.

 

[Barcaman]

They can take flares or whatever but then they are likely to shout racist chants or anything they can think of to get us kicked out.
French authorities got the names of troublemakers before the match and let them in anyway.
It will be a miracle if nothing happens vs. Spain.