Croatia
- Thread starter M.L. King
- Start date
Windhook
Well-known member
IMO overall Croatia had the best team this tournament. Team chemistry and motivation at the highest level, something that shook the world without a doubt. Two of the finest midfielders in football at peak level - Modrić and Rakitić. Sadly the whole team played a total of 90 minutes extra-time more than France team and that was apparent in the last 20 minutes of the final.
I know Croats will greet tomorrow their heroes as World Cup winners. Amazing achievement!
I know Croats will greet tomorrow their heroes as World Cup winners. Amazing achievement!
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BBZ8800
Senior Member
I am from Croatia, so I may be biased.
We lost in a final which will probably be a once-in-a-lifetime-opportunity, so I am probably sad, hurt and biased.
About Croatia, I am not one of the guys who will say: my NT/club is always the best regardless of how we play.
I was unhappy with majority of Croatian NT teams in the last 20 years and I often had to fight with my friends and local fans when I "dared" to say something bad about us.
The same is with Barca. I like to say often: we suck, this player sucks etc.
About Croatia in this tournament, if we want to be objective, we are NOT among the best teams in the world in terms of quality.
But we had a fighting spirit, and some luck in key moments.
So, if someone would have offered us a quarters before a world cup, we would say: yes, please!
If someone would have offered us a semis, we would ask: dude, are you drunk?
Finals? I won't even comment on that.
So, when you sum everything, this is awesome and we will all remember it our whole lives.
Further, I KNOW that Croatia:
1. was lucky against Denmark on pens. Denmark was maybe 55:45 better during the match, but Croatia had a pen in extra time, and we were denied a clear goal in that action in an unfair manner.
2. against Russia, we tried to play, but again, we needed penalties. So, even though we were better, we were still lucky (penalties).
3. England, 50:50 match. We were better in the 2nd half. But, if Kane would have score for 2:0, we would be dead and gone long ago.
So, when you sum everything, we had a lot of 50:50 matches, when luck was in the end on our side.
So, it was to expect that a luck will turn it's back on us.
But, my "main problem" in this story is a 2nd goal for 2:1.
I have been watching sports for 30 years and my general opinion is that a sport is not 100% fair play and that it is rigged to some extent.
I have been on "both sides". Rooting for a small team and rooting for a big team, so imo, I can be objective.
For example, in Croatia, I am a fan of Dinamo Zagreb.
And refereeing here is a total disgrace.
Whenever Dinamo needs a win, a ref will help with penaldos, free kicks, red cards etc.
I am not from Zagreb, and my local team also used to play against Dinamo Zagreb sometimes.
So, in general, I am a fan of Dinamo, except when they play with my local team.
And again, matches against them were a total comedy.
It is impossible to win against them.
If they will be better, they will win 5:0 without ref's help.
If a match will be 50:50, a ref will push them to a 1:0 victory from a pen.
The only way to win against a side like that is to win 3:0, and then even refs can't steal a victory from you.
But then, the irony, whatever is happening to Dinamo in a Croatian league is a total opposite of CL matches or CL qualifying matches against some big European boys like Milan, Arsenal and similar.
In those matches, it is the same story, but opposite.
If Arsenal is better, they will win 4:0.
If a match is tight, UEFA's ref will find a way for Arsenal to get a 1:0 win.
The same shit happens in La liga.
We all know Real Madrid and Spanish referees.
On the other hand, I am Barca's fan, and majority of people won't agree, but Barcelona and Real are probably two "most helped" European teams by refs.
What am I talking about?
1. every match will have a few corner kicks, and on each corner kick, you will have at least one defender pulling a short from some attacker, and at least one attacker pulling a shirt from one defender.
So, during every single corner, there will be at least 1 attacking and 1 defensive contact, which could be seen as: a pen, or a foul in attack.
So, you see, imagine that Barca and Dortmund play in a CL.
If Barca will have 5 corners: a ref will have 5 chances to award a soft pen in some 50:50 situation.
Also, a ref will be able to signal an attacking foul in every single Barca's corner.
On the other side, a ref will also be able to say: a pen or a foul in attack on every single Dortmund's corner.
And what will happen in 4 out of 5 cases: ref will "find" a pen for Barca/Madrid eventually.
And you can't say: it was a cheating, since in every single case there will be a touch or some duel, pushing and similar.
So, a ref won't "create" a pen out of nowhere.
But he will "pull" a pen from some 50:50 soft situation.
Real:Juve pen in the 94th minute, anyone?
On the other hand, WHEN, WHEN, WHEN was a soft pen awarded AGAINST Real in the 95th minute?
NEVER.
So, I am not saying that a ref will "create" a pen in every match.
But my theory is that Uefa/Fifa have a general plan before semis/finals, like:
Dear ref, Real plays vs Dortmund. For Uefa, sponsors and fans, it is " better" if Real will win.
So, if Dortmund will kick their asses 3:0, we can't do anything.
But if there will be 0:0 in the 80th minute, feel free to "create" a soft pen for Real, no one will be able to whine since a touch is "always there".
On the other hand, if Real is winning without our help, then don't intervene.
So, basically, imo, that is how it works:
1. if "a protected" team is winning without ref's help=ref's won't intervene
2. if a small team is winning by 3:0, a ref won't intervene
3. if a match is 50:50, a ref will try to intervene in 50:50 duels.
The same shit can be seen all the time when Barca and Real play vs other teams.
Or in La Liga, when Real plays.
In Seria A, when Juve plays. Oh, wait, we even have proofs for that, lol.
Or in a CL, when Dinamo Zagreb plays Liverpool in a CL qualifiers.
Or in a Croatian League when Dinamo plays minor teams.
In each competition/country, there are favored teams.
Whoa re favored either because of money, sponsors, politics, corruption etc.
Now, some may ask: why would Uefa/Fifa/La Liga help to some teams?
Well, mostly because of money, sponsors, popularity.
For a CL, it is better to have Barca:Real final than Dortmund:Monaco.
More viewers, more sponsors, more buzz, more Youtube views, more papers writing, more forum posts all over the world.
In general, more popularity, and long term= more money will be returned to Uefa.
So, YES, UEFA/FIFA will profit more from BArca/Real final, and FIFA will profit more from France/Germany winning a world cup, than Ghana, Ukraine, Croatia, Czech republic, Chile winning it.
Croatia has a 4 Million population.
We are poor.
Wtf will FIFA earn if we'll win it?
NOTHING.
Nobody will watch Croatian 1st Div matches.
Sponsors won't invest too much in Croatia and Croatian footballers.
On the other hand, France, Spain or Germany winning it... a different story.
Huge countries.
50-100 Millions population.
Way more room to earn from tv rights, lucrative sponsor deals, shirts, everything.
So, in general, I will dare to say that from a financial point of view, FIFA will longterm earn more money if France will win it, compared to Croatia.
The same is with Barca/Real vs Dortmund/Monaco/Roma.
Ok, there is always some rare example when pens are awarded against Barca (Inter) or France.
But in general, in 4 out 5 or 9 out 10 cases, big teams will be "pushed" towards final stages/wins.
In that sense, a pen for France was rigged, in my eyes.
Some may reply: but France would still score through Pogba and Mbappe for 3:1 and 4:1.
Well, it doesn't work that way:
at 0:0, France and Croatia played cautious.
at 1:0 for France, Croatia played attack.
at 1:1, Croatia were able to sit back again.
at 2:1, Croatia were forced to attack again and leave space for Mbappe and to lose energy from midfielders who weren't able to defend anymore.
So, without a pen, the match might have ended 1:1.
Or maybe Croatia would have scored 2 minutes later due to a momentum.
** If people will comment on my posts, don't be offended, but I won't reply.
I am seeing this shit in different sports (since I am from a small, quite poor country) in 10s of different sports.
Guys from Croatia will surely know a story how stupid is to play handball against FC Barcelona. (Zagreb vs Barcelona European finals)
The match is so rigged that you ask yourself: why on Earth am I even watching this sport.
Or Handball WC or European cups, against rich nations, like France, for example.
After those matches, you have a feeling: fuck this shit, I will never watch a sport again. This is so rigged and stupid.
I mean, for guys who will say that my theory is not true:
How many guys in FIFA are in prison now due to corruption?
What happened with Juventus, Italian referees and Calciopoli?
What is happening with Real in La Liga and Tebas?
Qatar will host a World cup in 2022? I mean, do I need to comment? Why has this happened? = because of money longterm
Cheating from Psg in terms of fair play and transfers?
Platini?
France (was it vs Ireland) in that scandal in qualifying matches from a few years ago?
How come that always big teams/big rich nations are always in scandals and that 50:50 things are always going in their favor?
So, Croatian NT team, thank you for everything. You have done more than you could.
But I do hate sports sometimes, and only fans from smaller countries and from smaller teams (not Barcelona/Real) will truly understand the injustice about which I am talking about.
But that is life and that is a current world.
Almost everything is about politics, money and interests.
Everything is rigged.
Cheers
We lost in a final which will probably be a once-in-a-lifetime-opportunity, so I am probably sad, hurt and biased.
About Croatia, I am not one of the guys who will say: my NT/club is always the best regardless of how we play.
I was unhappy with majority of Croatian NT teams in the last 20 years and I often had to fight with my friends and local fans when I "dared" to say something bad about us.
The same is with Barca. I like to say often: we suck, this player sucks etc.
About Croatia in this tournament, if we want to be objective, we are NOT among the best teams in the world in terms of quality.
But we had a fighting spirit, and some luck in key moments.
So, if someone would have offered us a quarters before a world cup, we would say: yes, please!
If someone would have offered us a semis, we would ask: dude, are you drunk?
Finals? I won't even comment on that.
So, when you sum everything, this is awesome and we will all remember it our whole lives.
Further, I KNOW that Croatia:
1. was lucky against Denmark on pens. Denmark was maybe 55:45 better during the match, but Croatia had a pen in extra time, and we were denied a clear goal in that action in an unfair manner.
2. against Russia, we tried to play, but again, we needed penalties. So, even though we were better, we were still lucky (penalties).
3. England, 50:50 match. We were better in the 2nd half. But, if Kane would have score for 2:0, we would be dead and gone long ago.
So, when you sum everything, we had a lot of 50:50 matches, when luck was in the end on our side.
So, it was to expect that a luck will turn it's back on us.
But, my "main problem" in this story is a 2nd goal for 2:1.
I have been watching sports for 30 years and my general opinion is that a sport is not 100% fair play and that it is rigged to some extent.
I have been on "both sides". Rooting for a small team and rooting for a big team, so imo, I can be objective.
For example, in Croatia, I am a fan of Dinamo Zagreb.
And refereeing here is a total disgrace.
Whenever Dinamo needs a win, a ref will help with penaldos, free kicks, red cards etc.
I am not from Zagreb, and my local team also used to play against Dinamo Zagreb sometimes.
So, in general, I am a fan of Dinamo, except when they play with my local team.
And again, matches against them were a total comedy.
It is impossible to win against them.
If they will be better, they will win 5:0 without ref's help.
If a match will be 50:50, a ref will push them to a 1:0 victory from a pen.
The only way to win against a side like that is to win 3:0, and then even refs can't steal a victory from you.
But then, the irony, whatever is happening to Dinamo in a Croatian league is a total opposite of CL matches or CL qualifying matches against some big European boys like Milan, Arsenal and similar.
In those matches, it is the same story, but opposite.
If Arsenal is better, they will win 4:0.
If a match is tight, UEFA's ref will find a way for Arsenal to get a 1:0 win.
The same shit happens in La liga.
We all know Real Madrid and Spanish referees.
On the other hand, I am Barca's fan, and majority of people won't agree, but Barcelona and Real are probably two "most helped" European teams by refs.
What am I talking about?
1. every match will have a few corner kicks, and on each corner kick, you will have at least one defender pulling a short from some attacker, and at least one attacker pulling a shirt from one defender.
So, during every single corner, there will be at least 1 attacking and 1 defensive contact, which could be seen as: a pen, or a foul in attack.
So, you see, imagine that Barca and Dortmund play in a CL.
If Barca will have 5 corners: a ref will have 5 chances to award a soft pen in some 50:50 situation.
Also, a ref will be able to signal an attacking foul in every single Barca's corner.
On the other side, a ref will also be able to say: a pen or a foul in attack on every single Dortmund's corner.
And what will happen in 4 out of 5 cases: ref will "find" a pen for Barca/Madrid eventually.
And you can't say: it was a cheating, since in every single case there will be a touch or some duel, pushing and similar.
So, a ref won't "create" a pen out of nowhere.
But he will "pull" a pen from some 50:50 soft situation.
Real:Juve pen in the 94th minute, anyone?
On the other hand, WHEN, WHEN, WHEN was a soft pen awarded AGAINST Real in the 95th minute?
NEVER.
So, I am not saying that a ref will "create" a pen in every match.
But my theory is that Uefa/Fifa have a general plan before semis/finals, like:
Dear ref, Real plays vs Dortmund. For Uefa, sponsors and fans, it is " better" if Real will win.
So, if Dortmund will kick their asses 3:0, we can't do anything.
But if there will be 0:0 in the 80th minute, feel free to "create" a soft pen for Real, no one will be able to whine since a touch is "always there".
On the other hand, if Real is winning without our help, then don't intervene.
So, basically, imo, that is how it works:
1. if "a protected" team is winning without ref's help=ref's won't intervene
2. if a small team is winning by 3:0, a ref won't intervene
3. if a match is 50:50, a ref will try to intervene in 50:50 duels.
The same shit can be seen all the time when Barca and Real play vs other teams.
Or in La Liga, when Real plays.
In Seria A, when Juve plays. Oh, wait, we even have proofs for that, lol.
Or in a CL, when Dinamo Zagreb plays Liverpool in a CL qualifiers.
Or in a Croatian League when Dinamo plays minor teams.
In each competition/country, there are favored teams.
Whoa re favored either because of money, sponsors, politics, corruption etc.
Now, some may ask: why would Uefa/Fifa/La Liga help to some teams?
Well, mostly because of money, sponsors, popularity.
For a CL, it is better to have Barca:Real final than Dortmund:Monaco.
More viewers, more sponsors, more buzz, more Youtube views, more papers writing, more forum posts all over the world.
In general, more popularity, and long term= more money will be returned to Uefa.
So, YES, UEFA/FIFA will profit more from BArca/Real final, and FIFA will profit more from France/Germany winning a world cup, than Ghana, Ukraine, Croatia, Czech republic, Chile winning it.
Croatia has a 4 Million population.
We are poor.
Wtf will FIFA earn if we'll win it?
NOTHING.
Nobody will watch Croatian 1st Div matches.
Sponsors won't invest too much in Croatia and Croatian footballers.
On the other hand, France, Spain or Germany winning it... a different story.
Huge countries.
50-100 Millions population.
Way more room to earn from tv rights, lucrative sponsor deals, shirts, everything.
So, in general, I will dare to say that from a financial point of view, FIFA will longterm earn more money if France will win it, compared to Croatia.
The same is with Barca/Real vs Dortmund/Monaco/Roma.
Ok, there is always some rare example when pens are awarded against Barca (Inter) or France.
But in general, in 4 out 5 or 9 out 10 cases, big teams will be "pushed" towards final stages/wins.
In that sense, a pen for France was rigged, in my eyes.
Some may reply: but France would still score through Pogba and Mbappe for 3:1 and 4:1.
Well, it doesn't work that way:
at 0:0, France and Croatia played cautious.
at 1:0 for France, Croatia played attack.
at 1:1, Croatia were able to sit back again.
at 2:1, Croatia were forced to attack again and leave space for Mbappe and to lose energy from midfielders who weren't able to defend anymore.
So, without a pen, the match might have ended 1:1.
Or maybe Croatia would have scored 2 minutes later due to a momentum.
** If people will comment on my posts, don't be offended, but I won't reply.
I am seeing this shit in different sports (since I am from a small, quite poor country) in 10s of different sports.
Guys from Croatia will surely know a story how stupid is to play handball against FC Barcelona. (Zagreb vs Barcelona European finals)
The match is so rigged that you ask yourself: why on Earth am I even watching this sport.
Or Handball WC or European cups, against rich nations, like France, for example.
After those matches, you have a feeling: fuck this shit, I will never watch a sport again. This is so rigged and stupid.
I mean, for guys who will say that my theory is not true:
How many guys in FIFA are in prison now due to corruption?
What happened with Juventus, Italian referees and Calciopoli?
What is happening with Real in La Liga and Tebas?
Qatar will host a World cup in 2022? I mean, do I need to comment? Why has this happened? = because of money longterm
Cheating from Psg in terms of fair play and transfers?
Platini?
France (was it vs Ireland) in that scandal in qualifying matches from a few years ago?
How come that always big teams/big rich nations are always in scandals and that 50:50 things are always going in their favor?
So, Croatian NT team, thank you for everything. You have done more than you could.
But I do hate sports sometimes, and only fans from smaller countries and from smaller teams (not Barcelona/Real) will truly understand the injustice about which I am talking about.
But that is life and that is a current world.
Almost everything is about politics, money and interests.
Everything is rigged.
Cheers
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BBZ8800
Senior Member
Regarding my post about money, sponsors and CL/World cup winners.
For example:
France 67 Millions population
Croatia 4 Millions population
Let's say that 10-20% of your population will buy an NT jersey if your country wins a World cup.
I checked prices, an original jersey costs around 80 Euros.
Now, for Nike, what does it mean if Croatia or France win it:
Croatia wins it:
10% of population buys an NT jersey: 400 000 x 80E=32M Euros income
20% of population buys an NT jersey: 800 000 x 80E=64M Euros income
France wins it:
10% of population buys an NT jersey: 6,690 000 x 80E=535M Euros income
20% of population buys an NT jersey: 13,380 000 x 80E=1,070 Billions Euros of income
So, even in the case of NT jersey, the difference is 64 M Euros to 1,070 Billions.
Now add 100s of other sponsorts, tv rights, filled stadiums etc.
All you have to do: award one 50:50 penalty and slightly help (France/Real and similar).
Do you guys think that my theory is THAT out of this world?...
That is really a lot of money..
Do you think that Nike wanted France or Croatia as winners tonight?
For example:
France 67 Millions population
Croatia 4 Millions population
Let's say that 10-20% of your population will buy an NT jersey if your country wins a World cup.
I checked prices, an original jersey costs around 80 Euros.
Now, for Nike, what does it mean if Croatia or France win it:
Croatia wins it:
10% of population buys an NT jersey: 400 000 x 80E=32M Euros income
20% of population buys an NT jersey: 800 000 x 80E=64M Euros income
France wins it:
10% of population buys an NT jersey: 6,690 000 x 80E=535M Euros income
20% of population buys an NT jersey: 13,380 000 x 80E=1,070 Billions Euros of income
So, even in the case of NT jersey, the difference is 64 M Euros to 1,070 Billions.
Now add 100s of other sponsorts, tv rights, filled stadiums etc.
All you have to do: award one 50:50 penalty and slightly help (France/Real and similar).
Do you guys think that my theory is THAT out of this world?...
That is really a lot of money..
Do you think that Nike wanted France or Croatia as winners tonight?
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JackaL
New member
Kind of a long and conspiracy theory driven post and as always with all conspiracy theories, there are bits and pieces that make sense, which is part of the fun of it.
Econometric analyses of refree biases show that refrees do have a bias for home teams, but not for big teams. Although fans of smaller clubs (I am also fans of those or let's say of clubs that are big in home leagues but small in European leagues) do feel that, nobody found such a bias against small teams. Anecdotally, you might be right, but in general, there is no effect.
I like to remind you that Uruguay, which is a very small country and comparable to yours did win the WC, although at a time it was not as commercial.
I remember you as being a data driven guy here, so it would make sense to back up those statements with real academic research and not back of the envelope calculations of some shirt sales.
Ah, yeah the game itself, unfortunately was and is corrupt.
Econometric analyses of refree biases show that refrees do have a bias for home teams, but not for big teams. Although fans of smaller clubs (I am also fans of those or let's say of clubs that are big in home leagues but small in European leagues) do feel that, nobody found such a bias against small teams. Anecdotally, you might be right, but in general, there is no effect.
I like to remind you that Uruguay, which is a very small country and comparable to yours did win the WC, although at a time it was not as commercial.
I remember you as being a data driven guy here, so it would make sense to back up those statements with real academic research and not back of the envelope calculations of some shirt sales.
Ah, yeah the game itself, unfortunately was and is corrupt.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
** Btw, I am so NOT a conspiracy theory guy.
15 years ago I was laughing at conspiracies and told guys who trust in any of them that they are idiots, but over years, I have changed some opinions, especially when money and politics are involved.
What's the point?
It would take a lot of time, majority still wouldn't believe and nothing would change either way.
But for anyone who is not from the richest nations or who is not a supporter of 2-3 biggest/richest clubs with brands and icons (Messi, CR7), they will know how rigged sport is to some extent.
A referee Moreno: Moreno was arrested on 21 September 2010 at John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York City, while trying to smuggle in six kilograms (over thirteen pounds) of heroin, which was hidden in his underwear. In January 2011, he pleaded guilty to the charges in a New York courthouse, facing a possible ten years in prison. On 23 September 2011, Moreno was sentenced to 2 1/2 years in prison on the heroin smuggling charges. He was released from prison 26 months later and returned to Ecuador
A home team in 2002 needed to stay in the tournament (more fans, more interested towards a world cup, extremely rich sponsors in Korea, more buzz, more papers writing, more interest in Asia for football).
Helping to a home team, earning billions more, promoting football in Asia (new billions generated in upcoming years from selling EPL jerseys, selling Champions league and EPL matches etc) is way more important than having a fair play tournament.
It is business with billions involved.
Usa, Russia and big countries are open to kill 10 000s of people in some countries and create wars out of nothing, if it fits their interests regarding politics and money.
Awarding a light pen/red card/rigging a Champions league draw and similar is a piece of cake comparing to those events.
You don't even have to kill anyone and you will still earn Billions for your company.
A sport is fair only to a certain extent:
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Vilarrubi
New member
I watched yesterday as an absolute neutral and felt the ref favoured France, he was fast to blow his whistle for French free kicks and other things but not for Croatia.
The only favourable decision I saw for Croatia was him not giving a yellow for the guy who pulled Mbappe's shirt.
Playing better than your opponent and getting fucked in the ass by ref is probably the worst feeling in any sport. For the fans, but especially for the players.
It is what it is, no one can change it now, but I think we deserved more in that final.
Although I don`t think it`s a FIFA conspiracy, just a ref with a bad day.
It is what it is, no one can change it now, but I think we deserved more in that final.
Although I don`t think it`s a FIFA conspiracy, just a ref with a bad day.
Sport is fair ar much as people are fair. Basic logic.
People are not fair. Infact we are oposite of fair. We have biases, misconceptions, selfish interests and above all....ignorance. We willingly ignore the truth, when it suits us. Last nights "discussion" about team origins in the WC thread reminded me of that.
It s really unhealthy to take sports seriously. It just adds up to personal ignorance level.
Why would it be unhealthy? Sport, regardless of level it`s played at is pure passion.
When you see people from 5 to 95 years old crying from joy or sadness, it`s what it is all about. Fuck politics and everything else.
My dad cried when Croatia beat England and went into the final...and he is 65 years old. What is ignorant about that? It was nothing else but pure joy and happiness.
When you see people from 5 to 95 years old crying from joy or sadness, it`s what it is all about. Fuck politics and everything else.
My dad cried when Croatia beat England and went into the final...and he is 65 years old. What is ignorant about that? It was nothing else but pure joy and happiness.
Messi983
Senior Member
You probably wouldn't play a final without Suba so hard to blame him but yeah, he should've done better yesterday.
Anyways, congrats on a great tournament. It's always hard to lose a final but you can only be proud of your players. It will take some time for disappointment after final loss to go away but after that you'll all realise what your team has done. This generation will be remembered forever just like Vatreni from 1998. I think Croatia played the best/most entertaining football for most of the tournament besides Belgium and I would prefer any of those teams to win before France who has the most talented team but they didn't play close to what I think they could because of Deschamps tactics. They won the cup so nobody will care about their untapped potential at the end though.
vlad
New member
That is truth my fellow countryman
We finally did capitalize on this great generation of players, after so many failed attempts
You are displaying ignorance (to ignore) by looking at only the pleasant side of the matter. We tend to do that at all times.
You are not mentioning hate, violence and all the other human crap, regulary displayed by sports fans. You can find plenty of examples on this board.
And while all these things are self-damaging in all stages of life, the are particularly stupid if you consider, that sport is just a game.
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