JamDav1982
Senior Member
http://www.footballtop.com/players/sergio-busquets
There you go.
Anyone can speak shit on the internet.
Means nothing.
Denis Suarez
- Thread starter yeswecan
- Start date
http://www.footballtop.com/players/sergio-busquets
There you go.
Anyone can speak shit on the internet.
Means nothing.
M
MessiCam
Guest
Like you... Luckilynwe know what Busquets is.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Like you more like and yes the fact we know how Busquets plays is what proves my point.
Google Rakitic - attacking midfielder, playmaker and there are results for it.
Awful, awful argument from you to try and prove anything.
Show me anywhere I have spoke as much shit as you when claimed Barca should play more like Las Palmas and you can spout off.
Deary me.
M
MessiCam
Guest
Now Rakitic is a playmaker and an attacking midfielder. Go sleep.
I didn’t say Barça must play like Las Palmas either. I said we’re led to believe on this very board that this current Barca side can’t play attractive football but yet Las Palmas can do it with the bums they have.
Do you even know what a box to box midfielder is? It appears you don’t... But It’s no big deal. Read up on it though before commenting and arguing for the sake of it.
It really shouldn’t surprise me though when you’re the one that thinks wing backs can’t move up in a flat 4-4-2.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
You held up Las Palmas as some example Barca should be more like when clearly dont have a clue what you are speaking about.
Raki is not a box to box mid hasnt been at any club for years and your little google evidence proves nothing as has been shown..
Never said anything about wing backs in a 4-4-2. More lies from you.
Much like your lies about Busi saying Barca play defensive football you are lying about anyone saying Barca cant play good football.
So many lies but Las Palmas what a side!
Got to bed.
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Joan
Well-known member
I've asked you once but I'll repeat it, what's the problem with box to box midfielders really? For example, do you remember how Vidal used to cover for Pirlo and let him play freely? Busquets could contribute to the attacking side and help the team build structure if he was freed for one bit of his defensive duties (look at Napoli's Jorginho controlling the game, at the same time, one of the reason why they are weak at the back), this way he drops too deep. Just an example... our main defencive strategy back in Xavi-Iniesta days was high possesion, we can't rely on it completely any more. I think that the midfield of Iniesta-Sergio-Pogba would do just fine, or Vidal, Goretzka instead of Pogba. Hope Rakitić gains his form back... that would really be a boost..
Xaviniesta
Senior Member
You are wasting your time man, that user will argue with you no matter what...
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Go scuttle off and tell us how you wish to see Barca get out passed against a team Valverdes tactics will fail against.
Good lad.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
I am under the impression that in your mind, there are only 2 types of midfielders:
1. Barca's type, short, technical players like Xavi, Iniesta, Deco, Denis
2. box to box midfielders=all other players who are not insanely technically gifted (and who aren't physically weaker more or less)
We, others look at it this way. These are these types of midfielders:
1. Barca's type, short and technical (Xavi/Iniesta)
2. "normal" midfielders. Not as technically gifted as Xavi-Iniesta, plus slightly more physical. Let's say: Rakitic
3. box to box midfielders. True box to box midfielders, who run for 90 minutes up and down in both ways, like Steven Gerard and Frank Lampard.
Also, a confussion may come from a fact that a football evolved and is evolving all the time.
20 years ago, all teams had a classic 10, attacking Cam like Maradona, Totti (Riquelme, Mendieta) etc.
They were freed from all defensive duties.
While Cdms back then were like Mascherano, players who only defended and played simple passes.
In a modern football, all players are required to both attack, pass, score, work and defend and now you have guys like Rakitic, Gomes, Roberto.
If Rakitic would have played in 1996, he would have been either a Cam or a Cm without too much defensive duties.
Roberto would run way less up and down.
And now, you have a current era where players need to run like crazy and then you have guys like Roberto who are box to box midfielders in your eyes.
But imo, he looks like a box to box only because he can run for miles and has great stamina.
In 1996 or 1999, our Cms were just Cms.
Our Cams were just Cams and nothing else.
If you would clone Barca's players from 90s into today, then today's coaches and modern football would force even Rivaldo, Figo, De La Pena, Guardiola, Lucho and all midfielders to run up and down and to defend (or attack) way more than then.
Again, just look at CAMs, classic 10s.
There are no players like Totti anymore who are free to walk around a box and don't do anything (and his 2 Cf partners also).
It is suicidal today to have 3 players in a team without any defensive duties.
In 90s or early 00s, that was perfectly normal.
Defenders were defending back then.
Attackers were scoring and waiting for the ball.
In 90s, a fullback who was a crap in attack was a normal thing.
A CB with poor passing skills was a classic/normal Cb.
Look at today: we are buying a Gk who is extremely good in passing to fit our style.
We are buying only Cbs who are insane with passing, under pressure and in creation (to some extent).
Today Gks and Cbs need to pass well.
A fullback needs to play as good as a winger.
Midfielders need to attack, defend, pass, score, work, create, move on and off the ball perfectly.
Football has evolved, times has changed and imo, this is why any "normal" Cm (except Xavi-Iniesta type) looks like a box to box midfielder today.
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M
MessiCam
Guest
And how many times must I say it. I don’t have a problem with box to box midfielders. They’ve been used to good effect in Barcelona squads. My problem is the apparent obsession with them at this stage. We have 4 in one squad and there are rumours regarding Goretzka. Box to box midfielders have no real place in Barcelona’s system and as such are used out of their comfort zone...
Further with our system, Busquets is not allowed to play that type of game because during build up it is he who drops into the defence while the wing backs push forward to create numerical superiority to counter a potential high press. So you’ll have your keeper, two centre backs and Busquets lying deep during build up.
Your Vidal and Pirlo example, while interesting, is flawed because Juventus used Pirlo as a deep lying playmaker at the base in a 4-4-2 diamond. What made Juventus system work was the use of two box to box players in Pogba and Vidal to get up and down the pitch. In Napoli’s case Jorginho is again being used as deep lying playmaker in a three man midfield so it could work to flank him with box to box players but Sarri knows it would be foolhardy because of their intense passing game.
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M
MessiCam
Guest
Whatever gave you such an idea. There are a plethora of different midfielders. Playmakers (De Bruyne, Iniesta, Fàbregas), Deep lying playmakers (Xavi, Pirlo, Verratti, Jorginho), Wide midfielders (Giggs, Beckham), Defensive Midfielders (Busquets, Diawara), Attacking midfielders (Totti and any 10 worth his salt). Box to box (Gerrard, Lampard and Pogba as you said).
And I’ve seen the game evolve like everybody else but that doesn’t take away from a players basic attributes. Busquets, Jorginho, Pirlo are not short but have amazing technical abilities. Neither are De Bruyne and Fernandinho.
It’s a very specific type of player that can play Barça football and one of the reasons we’ve steered clear of box to box midfielders in the past. They have attributes suited to another kind of game.
M
MessiCam
Guest
I’d like this if I wasn’t on mobile.
Suarez too. He defends our near post well during corners and scores goals at the other end.
Joan
Well-known member
Example with Pirlo and Vidal is quute good. Pogba didn't have the same role as Vidal had. When Pirlo would go forward, Vidal would drop back and cover for defence.
Hypothetical box to box player in our squad would have completely different role than one's of Sergio thus, different impact. With Vidal, for instance, it could be Iniesta-Busquets-Vidal (standard lineup) or during the match transformation to Iniesta-Vidal-Busquets. Completely different game plan.
Im not advocating it, but there are certain pros.
M
MessiCam
Guest
And I have no problem with that but what I fail to see is where 4 of them fit in. And hence my query, from the start, has always been what’s up with the box to box midfielder obsession lately? You’d be hard pressed to find as many box to box midfielders in any Barcelona squad over the last 30 years as this one.
I was then told they’re not being used as box to box midfielders... No shit Sherlock! Then I was told they’re not box to box midfielders but truth of the matter is that these type of players very rarely succeed at Barcelona due to our style of play. A style that Valverde swore to uphold. He hasn’t but that’s a discussion for another day.
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