End of Premiership dominance?

[Beast]

Quality and thread and great posts from everyone

i was crying over the quality of the liga last season , i have to admit i was blind the year before it when we won it.. the thing is i cannot say even if we buy Kaka,Xabi,CR..etc that the quality of the liga is going up.. it will be the case of

1- Real or Barca with 90 points
2- Barca or Real with 89 points
3- Atletico or Seville with 60 points

^^^^ above is the expected scenario ... it's a rise up for the quality of the big 2 while the rest are really left behind

on the other hand the EPL will continue to overall grow stronger.. the only plus side is that the 2 top clubs is owned by Americans who lost a lot in the recession, a Russian billionaire with his money cut in half .. all of them have huge debts and are in dire straits
Chelsea need to spend and sugar daddy ran out of money.. the renewal for Ballack shows they don't have the same financial muscle to get new quality players especially when they bought old players.. most of their top players are in their 30's or approaching it ..
Liverpool transfer Kit is lower then many liga teams like Atletico and co 15 Million is a joke for such a big club and Rafa will have to sell before he buys ..
Man U continue to make revenue but SAF only buy 1 or 2 big names and the rest are young.. but as shown by Barca they lacked the technical skills to hold on to the ball

Barca winning the Champions league has so many positives on the world of football and the way teams view their strength.. it showed you can't beat a technical team with an excellent manager when they are on.. i suspect SAF will try to get quality passers like Xavi type instead of relying on speed.. i couldn't be more happier with Barca trophy as a Madridista cause the way Barca played and won has (IMHO ) shifted the way we approached our summer transfers including the need for Spanish flavor

i think if Real built the team properly and gave Pellegerini the support we could be up there in the CL , stripping Man U of Ronaldo (although i know Perez is looking desperately for a way out of Calderon deal with Man U ) will add more viewers and more revenues to Real .. the problem is as i mentioned earlier.. it's solely Real and Barca..

if other teams in Europe study Barca season .. they will build properly and cheaply .. i was surprised to see Milan interested in 2 Getafe players including Albin this morning plus the hiring of a Milan legend.. it all seem a copy cat IMO to Barca module


Barca showed this season it could be done with proper management and you don't need to spend big you can have cheaper alternatives but high technically .. so i have to wait to see what will happen this summer with all the teams cause it will sure be one hell of a summer that could change the face of the European competition

 

[Heath Newton]

Heath (I wish I knew your first name) I believe that the EPL is a much stronger league than La Liga because they share out the TV revenue equally amongst the clubs. This is exactly as it should be and if La Liga is not careful we will be left behind.
However, having said the above, one has to admit that the UK system is flawed. All British clubs (apart from my one whom I gave a substantial donation to help set up (AFC Wimbledon)) are owned by an individual. The ELP which has now inspired the Indian Premier League (the cricket format which sickens everyone) is all that is wrong about capatalism. Don't get me wrong I am a capatalist, I run several companies in different continents there is nothing wrong with trying to earn money as long as it is ethical or else you are Italian (cue Gio).
Football however is a different kettle of fish. Football is for the people. It was originally a game played between villages with the goals being over a mile apart (mostly further apart) and the point was honour and glory. The game was for everyone, there were no rules or a cap on how many players could turn out.
Now the country that gave us football is run by Billionaires for their own entertainment. There is no development of players in England or the rest of the UK. What is their motivation?
It is time the game went back to the people. Maybe then England can rise again.

i don't disagree with any of that tbh, cos it's hard too.(though most clubs have always been owned by one man, it just used to be the local butcher baker or candlestick maker, as opposed to the "allowed in unopposed" doginess of the nowadays men)

i think however, that in a way, we had virtually no choice.
sadly the hillsborough disaster had such a massive influence on the english game which resulted in it eventually going away from the normal fan, and there being a lot more results based necessity football. :sad:

the cost of redevelopment of stadia (even though the govt of the time set up a fund for all clubs to use) meant every club had a new ground/stands, and they used this excuse to justify price hikes, it also came just at the start of the PL which was pure (bad) luck really, cos the extra influx of money meant teams spent ahead of themselves to turn the amount of non-british in the league from summat like 15-20 in 93 to 100s now.
it also meant that eventually, the average PL wage has jumped from about 6k a week to 65k a week where it is now.

all of this is almost impossible to turn round now cos ticket prices are too high, average age of fans attending is about 40, and when the PL chiefs have a "fit and proper" test that someone like shinawatra can cruise through to own a club virtually unopposed, then they're hardly looking out for the proles are they?

hopefully it'll ALL come down like a pack of cards soon and "normalcy" can resume.
but it won't.

sadly, and cynically, i'm rather ambivalent about it all now. :sad:

 

[Cule Angles]

It's a strange kind of dominance when the EPL's clubs have only won 2 of the last 10 CLs. Although the league has managed to produce an unerring consistency in terms of the number of clubs in the QFs and SFs this hasn't translated itself into producing exceptional teams, last year's Manchester United aside. English clubs have contested the last 4 finals and won only one, against another English club, yet the media hype rumbles on. There's not a lot to say that hasn't already been said but I feel that the wheels are slowly starting to fall off Wenger's Arsenal side and the other English sides look weaker than before. I foresee a resurgence of the Italian sides in next season's CL with Juve strengethening over the summer and Inter continuing their progress under Mourinho. Milan are in a whole heap of trouble but the other two will be sides everybody else wants to avoid. In terms of La Liga, Barça will be favourites to retain the CL and Madrid are an unknown quantity. I don't rate Sevilla but Atlético have all the makings of a surprise package in Europe and they could make the semis if they decide to sign some competent defenders.

 

[Snyde]

You know of all the top leagues (top 10 or so) Germany are the ones that have the strongest base, are closest to their fans, have loads of young (and loud) fans plus they are very secure financially. Add to that the league is very entertaining, with loads of goals and quality players (esp. in attack) and now is no longer dominated by just 1 team, there are all the makings of a successful league.

In Italy there are major fears that their UEFA ranking will be downgraded and Germany will come at no. 3. That is not an unfounded fear to say the least. Further if you look at any top 6-8 EPL club (perhaps other than Arsenal or maybe Villa) they suffer from huge debts. It may not seem much now when the revenues are good and there are investors lining up to own clubs but this has all the makings of a financial bubble very similar to the IT and commodity bubbles. If (or when?) it bursts EPL will suffer tremendously. Few clubs like Leeds or Newcastle seem like an exception now but they are a warning on how in just 2-3 years everything can go disastorously wrong.

If I had to bet on some league coming back big time it'll be the Bundesliga.

 

[Necro Spaaw]

so can someone explain how the hell did mutd get over 730million euro in debt?
how this shit happens?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/jun/02/premier-league-clubs-debt

basically, it means u cant succeed in this business in the long run, and make profit? :s

 

[Heath Newton]

so can someone explain how the hell did mutd get over 730million euro in debt?
how this shit happens?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/jun/02/premier-league-clubs-debt
basically, it means u cant succeed in this business in the long run, and make profit? :s

strictly speaking no, but we were a public company due to this \/\/

we were the most stable club on and off the pitch for a good while, but due to ambition and slight lack of foresight (selling shares to finance the stretford end rebuild, but not buying enough BACK afterwards) left ourselves open to murdoch (who the fans mostly spurned on their own ) and then saf's horse racing "mates", and eventually onto the odious american trolls who borrowed money to buy us, then lumbered us with bank balance that went from about 80m in the black to 600m o/d

we only went public to raise funds to improve old trafford, which we did, but going public didn't have the feel of danger that eventually came about and too many people did nothing (though fans groups were formed to try and buy back the majority share).

unfortunately our timing was brilliant/shite depending on how you want to look at it cos by the time anyone had anything near enough £ to have bought enough shares, we'd taken off success wise and share prices were tripling and more.

that was when it got out of our reach and a succession of people, rupert murdoch, coolmore and then the glazers bought into the club.

basically, because the "fit and proper test" for owners over here is seeing if you can rip a wet rizla in half, then malcolm glazer eventually took us over, by borrowing 600m in his name and then putting it onto our/his accounts via his red football holdings company.
the fucking gimp.and the reason for this pic.

and plenty more that are much more vivid in their instructions.

strictly speaking not the most moral of situations, especially as we were almost the perfect working model for the business side of a club. :sad:

but, although we were "askin for it", we weren't in truth.
basically, if we'd taken all the taylor report govt grant money we were offered it might not have happened cos % wise,we took nowhere near what had been there for us, deciding to do the right thing and let the lower clubs share more.
shows where being a little bit noble gets ya eh.

plus as i said above (i think) we've paid out £260m in interest alone, on those loans, in the last 3 years!!, yet still manage to compete, how fucked up is that?? imagine if we didn't have to shell all that out cos of 1 ginger gimp and his twats for sons.

 

[AnfieldEd]

Basically from bottom to top the premier is overall stronger this season - bar Barcelona.

I have not seen a poorer la liga season in a long time to be frank. Except for Barca obviously.

 

[Poor_Sunyol]

It was weaker last year.

 

[shadows]

Basically from bottom to top the premier is overall stronger this season - bar Barcelona.

I have not seen a poorer la liga season in a long time to be frank. Except for Barca obviously.

Bottom to Top is not stronger man...Apart from the top 7-8 teams the rest are all shite in EPL..Laliga's is much more even ..You can see teams giving the top 3 a run for their money much more consistently even though they operate on a very low budget compared to all the teams in EPL and Liga's top 4...

Regarding a poor Liga season..Look no further than last year..Last year was IMO the poorest Liga season i have seen!

 

[Necro Spaaw]

ok, anyone have any insight in FCB financial standings? are we in such horrendous debts as well?

 

[shadows]

ok, anyone have any insight in FCB financial standings? are we in such horrendous debts as well?

as far as i heard we are one of the financially sound clubs..

 

[Necro Spaaw]

me too, but I'd like proof

 

[Andrew M]

Basically from bottom to top the premier is overall stronger this season - bar Barcelona.

I have not seen a poorer la liga season in a long time to be frank. Except for Barca obviously.

La liga has had a lot more success in the Uefa Cup than the Premiership recently.

 

[Snyde]

IMO Quality in the bottom/midtable (non top half) teams can't really be compared but IMO Liga has better ones and at the least are far, far more entertaining. The only measure of a league cannot be how difficult it is for a top-4 team to beat stoke.

 

[ZenI]

Albin is a quality player. I've been watching him and thought he would be a better backup than Guddy for us. I kind of had a feeling he would be bought by a bigger club.


Anyway, even if one could say that the EPL has dominated the last couple of years their 'domination' didn't last for long if we assume it's the end of it. Imo what ignited the spark was when Abramovich bought Chelsea and pumped in silly money for transfers and wages. Along with the money from TV-rights, sponsor deals and good marketing (fan bases around the world etc), other actors wanted to come and play in the EPL. Everybody from oil sheikhs to NBA, NHL, NFL club owners. It became a playground and everybody wanted to keep up with Chelsea. That's why there's been an EPL team in every CL final since the 2004 season (between 1992 and 2004 there was only Manchester United 98/99 that won, no other EPL teams even in the finals?!).

Just like Serie A was dominating most of the 1990's, it was the place to BE for players like Ronaldo, Zidane etc. But that country is a mess (I'm sorry Italian people) with corruption from the highest political level to the Camorra. I mean, come on! It's only in Italy you could be Prime Minister and also own the majority of the media?! (Btw, check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ewyeh_-Jys ). So one thing is for sure, Serie A will be left behind even further if players like Kaka, Pato and Zlatan would leave. Who would be left in Serie A, Cassano?

In LFP, Barcelona and Real Madrid is among top 10 richest teams (Forbes et al ). Instead of the ‘big 4’, we have the ‘big 2’. The economical gap down to Villareal, Sevilla, Valencia, Atletico Madrid is apparent. Maybe the LFP should share the TV revenues just like in the EPL. But I’m not sure, it’s demand and supply imo – why should for example Getafe get as much money as Barca, Real Madrid or Atletico Madrid. But a more ‘standardized’ system for TV rights revenue should be applied. But the economy is also dependent on the worldwide fan base, that’s how sponsors reason anyway. The ‘big 4’ (+ Man C, since they have the money ) have a big fan base everywhere from China, Thailand, Japan, Argentina to Bahrain and India. I’m not so sure Villareal or let’s say Sevilla has many fans in India or Nigeria.
But I know many people that don’t watch EPL anymore cause’ the TV rights situation has made that public TV can’t afford to show the games – to greedy! Just like incognito said, ”the country that gave us football is run by billionaires for their own entertainment”. That’s why some people boycott the EPL. Cause’ Serie A and La Liga is on public TV in Sweden, Denmark and Norway to name a few.
Spain won the European Championship and that is of course a hint of where the LFP and the Spanish football ‘philosophy’ stands. And Barca showed the world in CL what La Masia is all about – a club with a soul! 7 players in the starting line-up in the final were our own products!

But if you look at the top teams in LFP – Barcelona, Real Madrid, Sevilla, Atletico Madrid, Valencia, Villareal – they are better than any team in the EPL outside the ‘big 4’ and even one of the ‘big 4’ on a good day (Arsenal for sure anyway).
But money talks, Valencia is going to get ‘slaughtered’ – Villa, Silva, Albiol maybe even Matta? Atletico Madrid – maybe Aguero and Forlan? And so on…
But right now Barcelona is the best team in the world and I’ve heard something about a new 'Galacticos' era :hmmm: ? And if only Liverpool would let go of the Spanish players, we would all be OK.