Ernesto Valverde - V1

[serghei]

If it is expected it is seen to be fairly easy and using some of the best club sides ever to back up that argument is not great.

Yes Barca have shown more consistency and shown that is a credit to the players and management across that time.

No it's not. You can expect great things from great teams. But the problem is everyone went tits up after Neymar left and we got beat in the Supercup, resulting in painting a much worse picture than the reality suggested. Some stayed calm knowing the season hasn't even started and the team can be strong by improving the shit that has happened last season. Valverde deserves credit for staying calm and going game by game. Now he needs to make sure he gets peak performances from this team come big CL ties, and he ain't gonna be achieving that by playing the same players that he himself says they're tired.

And i already said Valverde has done a good job and that he's matched my high expectations before the season if he gets past Roma. My only beef with him is not using this privileged position he and the team find themselves in to maximize their chances for a historic treble.

 

[JamDav1982]

No it's not. You can expect great things from great teams.

And i already said Valverde has done a good job and that he's matched my high expectations before the season if he gets past Roma. My only beef with him is not using this privileged position he and the team find themselves in to maximize their chances for a historic treble.

Yes it is and this Barca side clearly does not have the individuals that those other Barca sides had so to 'expect' the same from them doesnt make sense.

It is not a 'privileged position' it is an earned one.

I will totally agree if Barca dont rotate in easier games or if league won but can see why went with stronger team yesterday. As all the top sides did that are leading their leagues - most of which had easier games and more time to rest.

 

[serghei]

Yes it is and this Barca side clearly does not have the individuals that those other Barca sides had so to 'expect' the same from them doesnt make sense.

It is not a 'privileged position' it is an earned one.

I will totally agree if Barca dont rotate in easier games or if league won but can see why went with stronger team yesterday. As all the top sides did that are leading their leagues - most of which had easier games and more time to rest.

It is an earned privilege, here, I mixed it up so we can have both our chosen words included.

You rotate before CL important games. This Roma game in Camp Nou is essential. One great performance and you find yourself within 3 games of the title. This alone was worth risking the Sevilla game, which we still haven't won, even though we rested no one except Messi, who didn't play because he was not exactly fit and ended up being risked after all.

 

[JamDav1982]

It is an earned privilege, here I mixed it up so we can have both our words included.

You rotate before CL important games. This Roma game in Camp Nou is essential. One great performance and you find yourself within 3 games of the title. This alone was worth risking the Sevilla game, which we still haven't won even though we rested no one except Messi, who didn't play because he was not exactly fit.

No you try to strike balance between league which is still not won and even teams leading other leagues with larger gaps, against better sides with less rest than Barca played their strongest teams.

Not winning the game is irrelevant as it is about the intention to win. Cant guarantee anything.

Would think Messi is fine and he looked fine. A bigger game and he plays from start so to probably Busi.

 

[serghei]

No you try to strike balance between league which is still not won and even teams leading other leagues with larger gaps, against better sides with less rest than Barca played their strongest teams.

Not winning the game is irrelevant as it is about the intention to win. Cant guarantee anything.

Would think Messi is fine and he looked fine. A bigger game and he plays from start so to probably Busi.

Man, La Liga in the last years has been won in the last 2 rounds. This year it will be over sooner, with probably 3+ games left. In this way you never rotate because mathematically the league is not over until it's too late to rest players to be fresh for CL because you've already being kicked out from CL. You can win games in which you rotate too. For example, we played with Vermaelen and won on Bernabeu 3-0. Vermaelen can play in any game if fit (and he's fit now) without us risking anything in terms of points. If he played on Bernabeu and was fine, be can play against anyone in Spain and be solid. So even if you rotate, it's not like you give those games as losses.

Don't tell me playing Vermaelen instead of Pique poses any kind of risk in La Liga. It doesn't. Gomes started vs many top teams and we didn't lose those games, because omg Gomes was so shit he just gifted the win to the other team. It has been proven that rotating even with some bigger teams does not mean losing the game. But Valverd is not doing it now, when it counts the most. He only did it when forced, and even though he saw we still kept winning, even while playing 2nd choice players, he still is too scared to do it. Vermaelen case is the best example. Mina played vs Getafe and did it fine, we kept a clean sheet, and he was inches from scoring in his first game a 3 points goal. Never played again since then, but did it again vs Espanyol, where we still kept a clean sheet as well and he was solid.

The lead is big enough to afford some risks here and there, and even those risks, they're minuscule. Our bench options would start for the teams we play against, except if it's Madrid and Atletico. Aleix Vidal was an undisputed starter for Sevilla. Vermaelen would start for Sevilla anytime. Paco would play instead of Muriel 9 out of 10 times. But we can't play them because Sevilla is such a great team. Don't buy that, sorry.

 

[JamDav1982]

Man, La Liga in the last years has been won in the last 2 rounds in the last 4 seasons. In this way you never rotate because mathematically the league is not over until it's too late to rest players to be fresh for CL because you've already being kicked out from CL.

The lead is big enough to afford some risks here and there. As I said, the match vs Sevilla and the importance of the Roma game was worth it. No let's see if we can smash Roma after playing the full team vs Sevilla.

Again.... no one is saying 'never rotate'.

How many times are you going to repeat that?

You are assuming Barca would 'smash Roma' if all rested anyway.

 

[serghei]

Again.... no one is saying 'never rotate'.

How many times are you going to repeat that?

You are assuming Barca would 'smash Roma' if all rested anyway.

And again, rotating is the most important before CL big games, which are usually just 3-4 days before. And this time it was also after a NT break, which we're known to have problems after. We'd have more chances beating Roma soundly if we had rested more players vs Sevilla.

 

[JamDav1982]

And again, rotating is the most important before CL big games, which are usually just 3-4 days before. And this time it was also after a NT break, which we're known to have problems after. We'd have more chances beating Roma soundly if we had rested more players vs Sevilla.

Again... the top managers at other teams dont seem to agree with that and Sevilla away is not a game to just give up on as 'can afford to lose anyway'

You only wanted to rest two anyway and make out that will fuck the team vs Roma.

Get beat by Sevilla and potentially less chance to rotate between the Roma games and more at stake if do.

 

[serghei]

Again... the top managers at other teams dont seem to agree with that and Sevilla away is not a game to just give up on as 'can afford to lose anyway'

You only wanted to rest two anyway and make out that will fuck the team vs Roma.

Get beat by Sevilla and potentially less chance to rotate between the Roma games and more at stake if do.

Some do, some don't. Some managers rest players, some managers don't do it. Valverde seems to be in the 2nd category. Which would be fine, if we wouldn't have looked so sluggish and slow vs Sevilla. AND if Valverde himself didn't say the players were tired. Well, if they are tired and you have a key game 4 days ahead, why didn't you play fresher players? Again, our bench players would play in Sevilla's first 11 a lot of them, so it's not an issue of quality.

 

[JamDav1982]

Some do, some don't. Some managers rest players, some managers don't do it. Valverde seems to be in the 2nd category. Which would be fine, if we would't have looked so sluggish and slow vs Sevilla.

No basically none of the top teams with anything to play for in league rested players yesterday.

Bayern, Barca, Liverpool, City, Juve.

So not a case of some did some didnt. Virtually none of them did.

I will bet more will rest players in between the ties.

Sevilla away is a tough game and missing maybe two most important players as well of course it would be tough. As I said though you only wanted two of them rested and I dont agree Iniesta is knackered anyway.

 

[serghei]

No basically none of the top teams with anything to play for in league rested players yesterday.

Bayern, Barca, Liverpool, City, Juve.

So not a case of some did some didnt. Vurtually none of them did.

I will bet more will rest players in between the ties.

Sevilla away is a tough game and missing maybe two most important players as well of course it would be tough. As I said though you only wanted two of them rested and I dont agree Iniesta is knackered anyway.

What do Bayern and City have to play for in the league? And they looked sharp as hell, not slow, and just all over the place. If we looked unstopabble vs Sevilla, then yea man, the players are on fire so just play them and keep the momentum. But they were dead out there. We looked slow, Valverde said the players are tired, and the better approach in this case would've been to rest at least Iniesta and Pique.

 

[JamDav1982]

What do Bayern and City have to play for in the league? And they looked sharp as hell, not slow, and just all over the place. If we looked unstopabble vs Sevilla, then yea man, the players are on fire so just play them and keep the momentum. But they were dead out there. We looked slow, Valverde said the players are tired, and the better approach in this case would've been to rest at least Iniesta and Pique.

Nothing which is more reason to rest players but ones that did have something to play for still played strongest teams as did those that didnt.

Not a case of some top of table teams rested players and some didnt and most of those have less rest, easier league games and tougher CL games so more reason to.

 

[serghei]

Nothing which is more reason to rest players but ones that did have something to play for still played strongest teams as did those that didnt.

Not a case of some top of table teams rested players and some didnt and most of those have less rest, easier league games and tougher CL games so more reason to.

The manager felt the players were sharp and ready to play the game, and they were, having played superb games winning 6-0 and 3-1.

Our manager knew the players were tired, played them, they looked like shit, and well, got more tired (duh, tired players looking tired and being physically dominated, big surprise). A manager has to feel when you have to rest players and when they are sharp and can play 2 strong back to back games. In this context, with our team, considering we've had a difficult month with derbies in CL and La Liga (played Chelsea in CL, played Atletico in La Liga in a very important game for the title fight, not 2nd rate teams like Basel and Besiktas, which were walks in the park), resting players would've been the best course of action. Iniesta and Pique specifically, the two that looked shot (Sport rated them as the worst along with Paulinho btw).

 

[JamDav1982]

The manager felt the players were sharp and ready to play the game, and they were, having played superb games winning 6-0 and 3-1.

Our manager knew the players were tired, played them, they looked like shit, and well, got more tired (duh, tired players looking tired and being physically dominated, big surprise). A manager has to feel when you have to rest players and when they are sharp and can play 2 strong back to back games. In this context, with our team, considering we've had a difficult month with derbies in CL and La Liga (played Chelsea in CL, played Atletico in La Liga in a very important game for La Liga, not 2nd rate teams like Basel and Besiktas, which were walks in the park), resting players would've been the best course of action. Iniesta and Pique specifically, the two that looked shot (Sport rated them as the worst along with Paulinho btw).

None of that is relevant if you are saying the result in that game yesterday doesnt really matter but all about the CL.

As I said Barca had tougher game and missing two best players while Sevilla played well but you are trying to put it all on players being knackered.

Iniesta played 8 days ago and looked fresh as a daisy being hailed as still one of best around.... in that 8 days played 56 mins in a friendly and is now fucked?

Roberto was as bad as any of them and had two weeks off.

 

[serghei]

None of that is relevant if you are saying the result in that game yesterday doesnt really matter but all about the CL.

As I said Barca had tougher game and missing two best players while Sevilla played well but you are trying to put it all on players being knackered.

Iniesta played 8 days ago and looked fresh as a daisy being hailed as still one of best around.... in that 8 days played 56 mins in a friendly and is now fucked?

Roberto was as bad as any of them and had two weeks off.

But I didn't say the result doesn't matter. I said I was willing to risk losing the game in order to prioritize the Roma game which is more important. Would have still tried to win the game, just without Iniesta and Pique. Even if he didn't play full games with Germany and Argentina, FIFA break is tiring for the players, especially the older ones who aren't known for their great physical shape to begin with. Iniesta is quite slow as it is, but at this age while also playing 2 games with Spain (one away) it's best to rest him before a CL big game. As a sidenote, can't say I'm surprised he played like shit, it was coming.