khaled_a_d
Senior Member
Zidane is in totally different situation. He is a coach who isn't required to prove anything to anyone at this point. He is a club legend and football legend as both player and coach (although later will need more time to be established)
His decisions could be questioned but not his coaching ability, compare that to Valverde who is new coach with little history with our club and hasn't won much? he is't in a situation to be able to do that. Never mind it required few injuries for that to happen
And tbh I think it was wrong decision, Nacho should have played and would have been better, RM was exposed on both flanks in second half and Hakimi was just able to play some good crossed and that's it.
Valverde play Alena and we lose, then people will be asking for his head. Lucho used Munir and Sandro early on, won treble and double and people still doubt him in almost every aspect.
serghei
Senior Member
You can find excuses about everything Khaled. The point is giving Alena minutes against Olympiacos at home is something which involves an absolute minimum amount of risk. Alena played against United in USA, and did it amazing. United in a friendly is a higher quality than Olympiacos at Camp Nou.
We need a manager with personality, not someone who would play the same older players just because he is too afraid to take even the slightest risk. I really don't like that he didnd't call Alena for this game. It's a bad sign for me.
Rakitic shouldn't even be near the starting 11 at this point. And yet, he'll most likely start. A manager who wants to rejuvenate his squad would seek these lower risk games, especially in front of our own fans, to give playing time to the next batch of talents. If he's not doing that, that's failing half his job. His role at Barca is to win titles and rejuvenate the squad by promoting the already proven talent he has on his hands at Barca B.
Nobody is asking him to promote just for the sake of promoting. But the Barca B players who prove to be of special skill and talent need time in the first team. And these games alow us this oportunity, if the manager is bold and confident enough to do it.
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khaled_a_d
Senior Member
I have been saying that Alena should get 10/11 Thiago type of minutes (which is a lot btw) for few months now, but we need to understand the situation this club is in right now.
Since Pep the expectations of the club is sky high, and coaches don't get credit for anything. You can't ask a coach to look for play time for youngsters at this point of the year in the most crowded line. When he has to compete with best RM team in past two decades
Never mind he is still trying to figure out the best line up to have.
Last line is another argument, so not sure why bringing it
JamDav1982
Senior Member
They are actually pretty much following the blue print that Pep put in place for players with Alena.
serghei
Senior Member
At this point, he should already know that the best playmaker we have in midfield that is not well over 30 is playing for Barca B. But he, as others managers we had, is already seeing the easy and safe option to just pass the ball to Messi and let him decide what should be decided by the midfield trio as a whole.
Pep trusted unproven Busi to replace a world class DM in Yaya Toure while Toure was in his prime. If Valverde had Toure and Busi at Barca B, Busi would't catch the team. Pep did give sporadic minutes for some young players, but a select few, like Busi and Pedro were trusted and eased into the team very fast.
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DonAndres
Wild Man of Borneo
I'd say the risk of losing is higher with Rakitic than with Aleña and I'm completely serious. Same goes for Gomes, Arda, and probably Paulinho too. He is already a better footballer than all of them and I'd put money on it if I could, I certainly think the very minute he starts getting 1st team appearances he'll already outshine them with ease and people will realize that not playing him earlier was a mistake.
Talents like Mbappe and Dembele weren't held back as teenagers. Nor Dele Alli or Pulisic, who are obviously lesser talents than the French duo. I think Aleña is above them and other high potential prospects but below Mbappe/Dembele (obviously). He's amongst those that can already start at the top level and be productive for his team.
Talents like Mbappe and Dembele weren't held back as teenagers. Nor Dele Alli or Pulisic, who are obviously lesser talents than the French duo. I think Aleña is above them and other high potential prospects but below Mbappe/Dembele (obviously). He's amongst those that can already start at the top level and be productive for his team.
serghei
Senior Member
Completely agree. Would be as quick of an integration as with Busi and Pedro. In fact, the great game he had in preseason with United hinted at that, considering he was already involved in some pretty intricate combinations with the other midfielders.
khaled_a_d
Senior Member
Pep trusted Busi because he developed him, Pep has coached him during his time with Barca B. People keep forgetting that the only player that Pep has successfully promoted that he didn't coach at the reserve team was ,well no one. He used Cuenca and Tello some when they were doing well in Segunda and we had injury crisis and that is it.
If Pep was appointed today it is very unlikely he would have used Alena, he isn't a coach who trust youth by any mean. Probably would have asked for other signings.
And again, that is totally different context, Pep was a club legend who came from B team.
And tbh I don't thing Alena showed he is great play maker with 1st team during pre-season, he showed he isn't afraid and wasn't afraid but nothing exceptional. I am not sure if he is promoted he will instantly show pla making ability
And in CL game that there is no room for error even if the opponent is inferior, we aren't gonna use him. If we were able to ensure 1st spot before Sporting game then he should play in it. otherwise CL isn't for giving a youngster his 1st game of the season
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Busi never replaced Yaya immediately either he proved it on the pitch.
The flip side is that Pep never called up likes of Barta when he was one of best if not best defender in Segunda. He chose to play other players like Busi, Adriano etc at CB rather than a CB from B team.
The flip side is that Pep never called up likes of Barta when he was one of best if not best defender in Segunda. He chose to play other players like Busi, Adriano etc at CB rather than a CB from B team.
serghei
Senior Member
Quality is quality Khaled, and a top manager should see that what we lack in midfield is passing ability quite simply put, and that what we lack atm and need is something Alena has in his arsenal as a player. Pep would play Alena tomorrow with our midfield.
Because Bartra was nowhere near Alena as ability or potential. Busi got his first minutes at Barca at 20. All I ask is that Alena gets the same chance. Our midfield is shit, way way more shit than Xavi - Iniesta - Yaya Toure, so all the more reasons to get him playing time.
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JamDav1982
Senior Member
Barta was named the best defender in Segunda at an older age than Alena and in a position where there were no CBs to cover and he still never got called up.
Pep didnt just call up young players to first team as easy as is made out.
Alena will surely get chances in cup and if qualified in CL and if keeps progressing in league later in season.
Still younger than when likes of Busi and Pedro broke through.
Would love to see him as well as exciting to see young player but he is playing well for B team and has played a lot of games recently.
Pep didnt just call up young players to first team as easy as is made out.
Alena will surely get chances in cup and if qualified in CL and if keeps progressing in league later in season.
Still younger than when likes of Busi and Pedro broke through.
Would love to see him as well as exciting to see young player but he is playing well for B team and has played a lot of games recently.
DonAndres
Wild Man of Borneo
This isn't necessarily true and pretty rubbish when specifically talking about Aleña IMO. Lucho started Samper against APOEL in 14/15 in September well before the group was won. This was when we had a better midfield (in form Rakitic, younger Iniesta, Xavi still playing, etc.) and Samper still started and did well. Also his first appearance for the first team that season I think, maybe his only one tho.
Aleña is a much better talent than Samper and doesn't have any clear weaknesses the way the latter did, and is also competing against FAR WORSE midfielders today. He's already proven to handle literally every test thrown at him in the first team and is extremely impressive in training. So much to the point that Lucho called him up regularly for first team training, EV loved him in preseason, and he was playing like one of the BEST players on the team in the open training sessions during preseason.
There's no past evidence to suggest that playing a clearly 1st team ready talent like Aleña in the CL would bring us down and lose us the game. It's FAR more likely that we look spades better as a team than the reverse. When a player is ready he is ready. No age number should stop that.
khaled_a_d
Senior Member
How many times it happen that a youngster get his season debut in CL? Ok it happened with Samper but sure as hell it doesn't happen often.
Again, I want alena to get his chance, but tomorrow game is an important game, and coach so far clearly doesn't agree with your assessment of Alena being better than Rakitic,Gomes etx.
It isn't a game for experiments.
Jam has a point Seghei, what is said today about Alena was exactly said (and more) about Samper, and before him Bartra and Montoya, Montoya was actually called to Spain first team when he was playing with B team (but didn't play)
Your whole argument is based on your assessment of Alena, but it doesn't seem like people in the club agree with it, Alena wasn't called to any first team. It isn't like Valverde would love to lose
There was even talks last year that the club was mad at Lucho because he called him many times was first team because they thought he is pushing him early and he isn't ready.
So if we talk about Alena as a talented youngster, and not "a better player than our first team midfield" which seem to be the current club assessment, then Valverde is realistic and not a coward.
i would put that label in 2nd half of the season if he start to have a clear formation,ideas and don't see Alena in the squad. Specially considering Puyol won't be too patient (he is his agent)
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