Ernesto Valverde - V1

[Hamzah]

What people don’t understand is the current squad can’t play tiki taka. Everyone saw last night that the team can’t play that style against a high press vs an average team. Barca must be pragmatic and change the approach as required. Rather than do what you know is doomed to fail. If you have the players then of course play the classic style.

Arthur is developing and de Jong is arriving so hopefully that way of playing will be possible in the near future.

 

[El Gato]

True about staying behind despite downfall. The fanbase is diverse and there surely are a lot of glory-hunters only. To be honest I really fear 1/3 of the fanbase will drop after Messi's retirement. Maybe it's for the better in the end, when only true admires of our beloved club is left.

Nothing to fear. Be so much better without them. There’s still a portion of Madrid fans who bitch and whine about Ronaldo leaving. Unbearable stuff. Let go of attachment to players or specific concepts. Move forward, even if it means making compromise for what style you’ll be using to win on a temporary basis.

 

[Gaudi]

Like yesterday I still believe those big matches are more mental thing than tactical. In the league we have comfort of playing 38 matches but even against RM we sometimes lose our head.
But, that's again for coach to settle. It's probably not suprising Pep has a bad record in that regard as well, he looks super nerveous in those matches when camera finds him...that spreads on the team. EV looks dead, now some player may find fear in that while some may find peace.
For example Klopp looks like a winner, positive and so on...but it could also be that he is constantly training strong underdogs, those teams who "are coming". It would probably be different if L'pool wins couple of leagues and CLs and become the team to deal with. While they are strong they can still ride on the wave of underdogs.

 

[Ripsta]

Yesterday was all on the players, BUT this idiot will cost the team probably in the next round. If yesterday was Liverpool it would have been a heavy away defeat.

 

[Horatio]

To me, saying that results and trophies aren't important is a privilege of the winners.
If we had 2 blank seasons in a row playing sensational football everyone would lose their minds, tbh.

This man cracked one of Barcaforums code. The fact that there are people here that will always complain. I have been here long enough to know whats up. Bring those people back to summer 2017/2018 when Neymar left and they were proclaiming the end of the club and its inevitable downfall with Bartomeu behind the wheel, and they would be on their knees for these results and prizes even if play is not optimal.

 

[tacticvarium]

What people don’t understand is the current squad can’t play tiki taka. Everyone saw last night that the team can’t play that style against a high press vs an average team. Barca must be pragmatic and change the approach as required. Rather than do what you know is doomed to fail. If you have the players then of course play the classic style.

Arthur is developing and de Jong is arriving so hopefully that way of playing will be possible in the near future.

So if the team isn't capable of playing tiki taka then they should play pragmatic football?
What an absurd logic!
You do know there are many types and styles of attacking football right?
Possession football is also more than just playing some fancy tiki taka passes as well.

 

[Hamzah]

So if the team isn't capable of playing tiki taka then they should play pragmatic football?
What an absurd logic!
You do know there are many types and styles of attacking football right?
Possession football is also more than just playing some fancy tiki taka passes as well.

I know that. Pragmatic means "dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical considerations."

That can mean anything. I want a squad that can play different styles, with the ideal being tiki taka if it's possible. At the moment it isn't so try different things.

In an away CL game, after taking the lead, and then losing composure because players were making mistakes against a high press? The decision for 442 was a good one to stabilise things. The main goal is to get a good result to finish the tie at home, ideally with an away goal.

The subs weren't ideal though. Busquets stayed on when he should have been off, he had a terrible game and could have been sent off. I also think a fast winger should have been on instead of Roberto because there was space to be exploited on the counter and kill the tie with a second goal. Valverde went for a ''park the bus'' when I would have preferred a ''sit back and counter'' approach.

 

[serghei]

I know that. Pragmatic means "dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical considerations."

That can mean anything. I want a squad that can play different styles, with the ideal being tiki taka if it's possible. At the moment it isn't so try different things.

In an away CL game, after taking the lead, and then losing composure because players were making mistakes against a high press? The decision for 442 was a good one to stabilise things. The main goal is to get a good result to finish the tie at home, ideally with an away goal.

The subs weren't ideal though. Busquets stayed on when he should have been off, he had a terrible game and could have been sent off. I also think a fast winger should have been on instead of Roberto because there was space to be exploited on the counter and kill the tie with a second goal. Valverde went for a ''park the bus'' when I would have preferred a ''sit back and counter'' approach.

Well put. Park the bus and create jack shit, slowing the game down on purpose, is totally different than sit deep and go on the break to score on the counter.

Valverde's plan for this game was score a goal, then defend and see the game out. It succeeded, but it is just small minded. That's Valverde's problem. He is a small minded manager who is happy with little.

Scared to even think what his plan vs Liverpool on Camp Nou (if we go through) would be. Probably to not concede, and end the game maybe 1-0 or 0-0.

He is a good manager for a Sevilla type team. Always was, always will be.

A top pragmatic manager would know when there is an opening to gain a more considerable advantage. Having United on 1-0 and them attacking (which is the opposite of what they like to do) is an ideal case where you can force a 2nd goal without too much risk. So, if Valverde was indeed a great pragmatic manager, he wouldn't have parked the bus while having players who could've ended the tie on the break.

Pragmatism doesn't necessarily mean overtly-defensive. It means knowing when to push, or when to retreat a bit. Valverde's Barca is more limited than very flexible imo.

 

[tacticvarium]

The funny thing is that the current Barça team isn't even playing pragmatic football either. There is a clear difference between playing cowardly football and pragmatic defensive approach. There has been a lot of good teams that played attractive, entertaining pragmatic football in the past but Shitverde's team isn't clearly one of them.

 

[serghei]

The funny thing is that the current Barça team isn't even playing pragmatic football either. There is a clear difference between playing cowardly football and pragmatic defensive approach. There has been a lot of good teams that played attractive, entertaining pragmatic football in the past but Shitverde's team isn't clearly one of them.

Nah, he is a pragmatic manager imo, based on the loose meaning of the term. He is just only a 'good' one, not a great one. Also, many pragmatic managers have had success playing a more defensive style. The issue is their defensive setups were more drilled, with better work ethic. Just better defenses for the type of low block we're using often. Defenses who can resist long periods of pressure much better than our does. Or, dare I add, can do.

This Barcelona side doesn't give you that vibe. Yes, we survive often, and win quite some games 1-0, which is okay I guess, but at the end of the day, there is less defensive control than we got from great defensive sides like Juve, AM, Inter, or Chelsea back in the day. We kind of ride our luck in the sense that the opponent creates more chances than it is required for this defense-based approach to work, even if we're talking about half chances. Half chances is a tricky subject, because at a certain level, most goals are scored from half chances. You rarely see goals score in 1 vs 1 cases at this level.

Also, the nature of a half-chance is changing depending on the teams you face. A loose ball 16m away from goal into the path of Rashford is not the same as a loose ball at the edge of the box on Cristiano Ronaldo's right foot. Mistakes you make against big teams are punished more swiftly as the level of the teams you face increases. So, maybe United couldn't shoot on target from their chances. But I remember Juve scoring us 3 goals from 4-5 chances who weren't even that clear back in 2017.

For Valverde's style to work in CL, we need either better counter attacking, or better defending. Or, ideally, both. Great pragmatic-defensive managers have managed to have at least one of those two operating at very high levels with worse squads than ours. That is the difference really.

 

[Cule For Life]

We are just poor away from home in the KO rounds of CL regardless of it being Pep era, MSN era or now. We've only won 8 away games in the KO rounds from 28 that's a 28.5% win rate, even in our most dominate era.

 

[Horatio]

Cule for life > Cule4life

 

[Havesaks]

Cule for life > Cule4life

so true. cule4life is a fraud. Cule for life is the real deal.

 

[Havesaks]

Idiot, you either have poor comprehension or just trolling. Valverde ≠ the club! No one is bigger than the club. Criticizing Valverde doesn't mean I'm not supporting the club, quite the opposite. The ability to discern supporting individuals (whether players or coaches) from supporting the club is the main argument here. Supporting a club means an unending relation with football first and foremost, not individuals or trophies which are just a small part of supporting a club especially Barcelona.

I support Barcelona since the 90s, because of its history, tradition, and style of play that stood against pragmatic football that dominated the 80s/90s after Brazil 1982 team. I support them in their good and bad times. Players and coaches will come and go but your club will stay forever. Something you will never understand!

No one is bigger than the club and that includes you or other fanatics. Just because you want some pretty football to look at and its in your interest that the club plays that way, doesn't mean its actually in the clubs interest. Yes, you just rather wanna play 4-3-3 barca attacking football even if it means no trophies the next 10 years - and thats clearly not in the clubs interest. Winning titles, staying competitive while your core is aged af, thats important right now.

A club will not stay forever, like the human race it self it will die, and even before a 1000 years approx, it will be gone, but yeah anyway. You are such a good fan, pad yourself on the bag, will ya?

The ability to discern supporting individuals (whether players or coaches) from supporting the club is the main argument here.

Yes, i support Valverde because valverde makes barca better. What are you even talking about?

 

[CatalinR10]

Honestly, I want to tell you you are right completely...but then again I have read this ‘we are so lucky’- post so many times now.

Yeah and just like last season our luck will run out sooner or later. People were talking last season like Valverde knows what he's doing , bla bla only to get out of the CL in one of the most humiliating ways possible.

I know our away record in the CL is trash but sooner or later we would have won an away game in CL even if we were coached by a blind dog. It's just how things are.

I could be positive that we won 1-0 in a away game vs United but seeing the way we played .....it made me realise that the only way we could win this year's CL if we pull a Chelsea 2012 , potentially Liverpool/ City / Juventus having 10 clear chances in a game but somehow God decides that we should win it all with 1 shot on goal every game and playing as ugly as possible with an over bilion euro team.