Ernesto Valverde

serghei

Senior Member
That pass from the full-back to the winger is the type of pass Dani Alves said Pep hates, isn't it?

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I was curious and checked Alba's SofaScore stats to see how many passes he completed. 93 total.

Insane. Almost Xavi levels. And the guy plays near the sideline.

And yes, Pep doesn't abuse that pass, playing 'up the line' so to speak. It is very hard to get numerical superiority there. It's usually a winger in a 1 vs 2 scenario every time you do that. This triggers two actions most of the time: either back pass to Alba or corresponding midfielder, or individual action by the winger, under condition of numerical inferiority. Neither of which is exactly a high quality continuation or something which you should insist with. Unless you are an unimaginative hack like Valverde.

Anyways, the pass map explains both the insane number of touches and passes by Alba, and the high turnover rate of Fati. Imagine being at not even 17 years old the main plan of a manager vs a CL team.
 
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Havesaks

Senior Member
Media hyped? Not embarrassing?? I can't remember the last time I was so close to depression.
Our squad maybe wasn't "champions leauge-winning material", but we were so close and the meltdown was unreal.
You could argue some of the EV critics go too far, blaming everything on him, etc.. but you are out of touch with reality.. exonerating him of any blame whatsoever and diminishing on of the most embarrassing nights for any Barca fan to a mere "one goal defeat", just to accomplish that.
Is he your relative?

Go and see your doctor maybe? Dont lash out on others because of a depression after a lost game.

No matter how you turn it, we were twice one goal from avancement. Aint close being an embarrassmemt in my book. Edit: WELL embarrassing it was, but not worthy og sacking Valverde all things considered. 3-0 VS Juventus was, and 7-0 Bayern was a lot tho.

I litterally did state Valverde was also to blame for the defeats. The players said themselves, they were to blame.

Thing is, Valverde does alot right. Valverde has still a lot to offer, and if club keeps progressing, there is No need to sack him Now or after this season.
 
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Marshall D Teach

Well-known member
People do underrate Valverde way too much. He is head and shoulders above the likes of Tito and Tata who basically just played the Pep-system and didnt contribute to develop the squad at the time. Valverde did manage around losing the second best player in the world even after he was assured he would stay and build his tactics around him. Did manage to implement Lenglet as a solid piece in our backline after our prodigy Umtiti got broken. Managed to make Alba best LB in the world. Now that we actually have young talent worth fielding, he does field them: Arthur, fati, perez, de Jong.

Won 2 out of 2 La Liga titles. And on top of that 1 Copa Del Rey.

The squad he had in 16/17 wasnt well-rounded at all, hence he changed to 4-4-2 securing leuage title already before christmas. People complain about Arthur not fielding enoughtæ, but Thing is, he needed time to adapt to European tempo and style, and was in the past often injurie-prone. Other major complains Are playing style, fielding rakitic etc etc bla bla bla. We had an old squad and we could ofc not play like dortmund, city, liverpool. Now we have ypunger fresh players and wupti we play way more fresh, attacking, inspired and barcalike.

Reality is valverde didnt do much wrong and all tho he cant be tottaly unblamed for rome and liverpool, i still think our squad wasnt champions leauge-winning worthy, hence i dont mind not winning it. The fashion we went out on is also totally media hyped, both times we lost by 1 goal, which isnt embarresing at all.

Tito and Tata are not the standard we should be judging FC Barcelona coaches by. And he's not "head and shoulders above" them, he's at their level at best. Compare him to Lucho who is no Pep but certainly head and shoulders above Valverde.

PSG also only lost to us by 1 goal in 2017. Was that not embarassing?

Don't try to downplay the historic humiliations we've suffered under Valverde, not once, but twice, and consecutively at that. Honestly the only way he could make up for it at this point is by winning the CL, which will never happen because we have a clueless moron on the sidelines.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Go and see your doctor maybe? Dont lash out on others because of a depression after a lost game.

No matter how you turn it, we were twice one goal from avancement. Aint close being an embarrassmemt in my book. Edit: WELL embarrassing it was, but not worthy og sacking Valverde all things considered. 3-0 VS Juventus was, and 7-0 Bayern was a lot tho.

I litterally did state Valverde was also to blame for the defeats. The players said themselves, they were to blame.

Thing is, Valverde does alot right. Valverde has still a lot to offer, and if club keeps progressing, there is No need to sack him Now or after this season.

Being eliminated by Roma is not an embarassment? :lol: Please tell me which is the last team of Barcelona's caliber that was eliminated by Roma from CL. Probably Real Madrid in 2007-08, when they were managed by Schuster.

Valverde and progress are two words which don't go well with each other. He doesn't do a lot right. He does some things right, and many poorly. Massive difference. The club keeps progressing? :lol: Lucho's tenure was much more successful than Valverde's. So it's a regress under Valverde, certainly not a progress.
 
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Marshall D Teach

Well-known member
Being eliminated by Roma is not an embarassment? :lol:

While blowing a 4-1 lead. Which would have been the (joint) worst CL capitulation ever if not for PSG's epic meltdown the year before. "B-but they only won by WUN GOL!" Absolutely comical stuff from Valverde fanboys :lol:

They'd deny water is wet to defend the dude.
 
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Havesaks

Senior Member
Tito and Tata are not the standard we should be judging FC Barcelona coaches by. And he's not "head and shoulders above" them, he's at their level at best. Compare him to Lucho who is no Pep but certainly head and shoulders above Valverde.

PSG also only lost to us by 1 goal in 2017. Was that not embarassing?

Don't try to downplay the historic humiliations we've suffered under Valverde, not once, but twice, and consecutively at that. Honestly the only way he could make up for it at this point is by winning the CL, which will never happen because we have a clueless moron on the sidelines.

Psg 6-1 was embarrassing but mostly because their players bragged about their 4-0 win and thought the already had advanced.

Valverde and Lucho are on level.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Coming back to the important topics, Valverde will be a proper manager for Barcelona when Frenkie de Jong, Busquets, and Arthur will register the most touches and passes in the team.

That will mean the team will no longer play where the opponent is giving us space to play, but that we will create spaces where we want to by using off the ball movement, fluidity and triangles.

Until then we aren't doing shit in the Champions League by giving the ball to Alba non stop. Everybody and their dog knows that when Alba has the ball you have to block Messi and he is useless almost.

I suspect we will find out as soon as Tuesday, even though Dortmund are far from European elite.
 
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xXKonan

Senior Member
Tito has flaws but he had to miss a good amount of time due to his cancer coming back and when he came back the team was already on a downward trajectory, injuries started to pile up and you knew what happened next.

Tata was an outsider who people doubted the day he got the job and for every little mistake, he made he had the Catalan media all over his ass and wanted his head on a stake. Despite losing the dressing room and losing the likes of Valdes and having a Messi who was more concerned about the WC and some more injuries we played against a stronger Atletico and Real and he nearly won the league but due to a clearly dodgy offside goal we lost it.

Despite that I wouldn't say Valverde is miles ahead, sure he won more trophies but in terms of abilities? he's basically not that far off from either of those two in terms of management abilities. At least not miles above like it's been claimed.
 

Marshall D Teach

Well-known member
Btw, if I'm not mistaken, the disaster at Anfield would have been the worst CL chokejob in history if not for PSG 2017. 4-1 had been bottled before, but I don't belive 3-0 had.

Wouldn't be surprised if Valverde takes PSG's crown this year.

Tito has flaws but he had to miss a good amount of time due to his cancer coming back and when he came back the team was already on a downward trajectory, injuries started to pile up and you knew what happened next.

Tata was an outsider who people doubted the day he got the job and for every little mistake, he made he had the Catalan media all over his ass and wanted his head on a stake. Despite losing the dressing room and losing the likes of Valdes and having a Messi who was more concerned about the WC and some more injuries we played against a stronger Atletico and Real and he nearly won the league but due to a clearly dodgy offside goal we lost it.

Despite that I wouldn't say Valverde is miles ahead, sure he won more trophies but in terms of abilities? he's basically not that far off from either of those two in terms of management abilities. At least not miles above like it's been claimed.

He's at their level, which isn't FC Barcelona level. Lucho is miles above him. Once we're done with him, hopefully sooner rather than later, he'll go right back to some mid table La Liga team. Won't even be able to get a job at a team like Arsenal.
 
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KingLeo10

Senior Member
Psg 6-1 was embarrassing but mostly because their players bragged about their 4-0 win and thought the already had advanced.

Valverde and Lucho are on level.

Please, Lucho was terrible in 2017 but he gave us one of the greatest/most dominant seasons in European football history in 14/15.

50 W in 60 games (European record), 12 W in 13 games versus Atletico (x4), Juve (x1), City (x2), PSG (x3), Bayern (x1), Real (x1).

Big nose has given us nothing but mediocrity.
 

George_Costanza

Active member
Tito has flaws but he had to miss a good amount of time due to his cancer coming back and when he came back the team was already on a downward trajectory, injuries started to pile up and you knew what happened next.

Tata was an outsider who people doubted the day he got the job and for every little mistake, he made he had the Catalan media all over his ass and wanted his head on a stake. Despite losing the dressing room and losing the likes of Valdes and having a Messi who was more concerned about the WC and some more injuries we played against a stronger Atletico and Real and he nearly won the league but due to a clearly dodgy offside goal we lost it.

Despite that I wouldn't say Valverde is miles ahead, sure he won more trophies but in terms of abilities? he's basically not that far off from either of those two in terms of management abilities. At least not miles above like it's been claimed.

Only the blind think Retardo is better than Tata or any other coach since Lorenzo Ferrer!
 

serghei

Senior Member
Best way to undersand Valverde's tactics is to make the difference between proactive, and reactive. A defense will clearly block your central players the most. DM, CM, AM + Messi in our case, the central backbone of Barcelona. This will mean that the fullbacks will be left mostly free to receive from the CBs, because the defending team doesn't see them as major risks. You don't block fullbacks initially, because if you do it means you leave central players more free and you certainly don't want that. Fullbacks are usually one-footed players, and they don't see the game in 360 degrees, so once the ball gets to them the areas you have to block are more reduced, than in the case of a central playmaker, who can usually pass with both feet and has a complete view of the field. The question now is what do you do as a manager when an opponent is blocking you the most important creative players and leaving your fullbacks free to receive very wide.

This is basically where great managers are different than your average Valverde type manager. They will simply not accept this situation, they will not accept a defending team to dictate how their team will attack. They will look for ways to unlock the central players and continue to build centrally. Instead, the mediocre managers will accept the offered route with humbleness, even if they know that the defending teams offer that route only because it is the easiest to defend and the least qualitative way of building attacks. Valverde is a conservative, standard manager whose ideas are set in the 90's style wise. The great managers are more modern, and simply are more advanced in terms of way to generate space. To make a comparison, Pep and Klopp and other top managers are like blu-ray disks and Valverde is a floppy drive. A floppy drive can still store data. It works. It's just outdated and ineffective past a certain level.

This is the first instance where a Pep, or a Klopp, is completely different than a Valverde. It starts with the simple idea of imposing your way of playing. They will not take what the opponent is giving. They will force the opponent to give them what they want.
 
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xXKonan

Senior Member
23032638_1414781018645153_5272429396551230012_n.jpg


From the 2011 CL final. Vs

From Anfield.

2019-05-07-Barcelona-Passing-plot-Liverpool-Barcelona.png


Sure there are different players, but man the reliance on Alba is just ridiculous really.
 
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