FC Barcelona B (Barça Atlètic)

God Serena

New member
Masip counts as well I suppose so three for Lucho. Even then Rafinha was really in first team squad for first time as was Denis.

Are you sure JDS was promoted by Pep? What season was that?

Masip was going to be promoted as a backup to Mats long before it was even known that Lucho was going to be our next manager. He also hasn't played even a single competitive game as far as I'm aware since promotion so counting him is kind of grasping for straws. Rafinha and Denis don't count as promotions imo as they were both loaned out from the B team (In the case of Denis, he was actually sold) before being brought back as experienced La Liga players. Players like Samper, Rafinha, Denis, etc. count as being promoted the same way players like Cesc, Pique, and Alba and potentially Bellerin do, as far as I'm concerned. A promoted player goes from the B team directly to the first team the way Munir and Sandro did.

And I was under the impression that JDS was promoted in 2010 but upon checking his wikipedia page it seems he was only officially added to the first team roster when Tito took over, his usage just plummeted from when Pep was around to make it seem like he was a first team member who got the shaft by the new manager.

Who gets credit for Rafinha and Denis getting first team squad spots?

Surely has to be Lucho as the manager that used them in that environment for first time.

Not as straightforward as others and Denis is a push to be included but at very least Lucho gets some credit.

I'd give Lucho credit for Rafinha but that's more due to his time at Celta, than his time at Barca. As far as Denis goes I don't consider him even a little bit when discussing our own youth players. He spent more time floating about on loan than he did in the B team or in La Masia.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Masip was going to be promoted as a backup to Mats long before it was even known that Lucho was going to be our next manager. He also hasn't played even a single competitive game as far as I'm aware since promotion so counting him is kind of grasping for straws. Rafinha and Denis don't count as promotions imo as they were both loaned out from the B team (In the case of Denis, he was actually sold) before being brought back as experienced La Liga players. Players like Samper, Rafinha, Denis, etc. count as being promoted the same way players like Cesc, Pique, and Alba and potentially Bellerin do, as far as I'm concerned. A promoted player goes from the B team directly to the first team the way Munir and Sandro did.

And I was under the impression that JDS was promoted in 2010 but upon checking his wikipedia page it seems he was only officially added to the first team roster when Tito took over, his usage just plummeted from when Pep was around to make it seem like he was a first team member who got the shaft by the new manager.



I'd give Lucho credit for Rafinha but that's more due to his time at Celta, than his time at Barca. As far as Denis goes I don't consider him even a little bit when discussing our own youth players. He spent more time floating about on loan than he did in the B team or in La Masia.

Players going out on loan and then being promoted is nothing like players leaving for years then coming back. Lucho was the one who gave Rafinha and Denis their chance in first team squad and was really the one who promoted them to that level.

Denis is a greyer area but Rafinha was promoted under Lucho to the first team squad.

Include Rafinha and dont count Masip or Denis and it is three in three years against five in four. Not a massive difference as some would like to make out and Pep had the better players to promote.
 

God Serena

New member
Players going out on loan and then being promoted is nothing like players leaving for years then coming back. Lucho was the one who gave Rafinha and Denis their chance in first team squad and was really the one who promoted them to that level.

Denis did leave for years and come back. As I said, he was playing for other La Liga teams longer than he was with the B team, and he never was La Masia in the first place, the guy was 20 when he signed for us.

Denis is a greyer area but Rafinha was promoted under Lucho to the first team squad.

Eh, I disagree. Rafinha was loaned out during Tata's rule and he was brought back from loan, not promoted. It was either loan/sell him again, or use him with the first team. With the season he had at Celta any incoming coach would have opted not to send him back out on loan. Lucho is putting a lot of faith in Rafinha but he wasn't a B team player when he arrived, so he couldn't have been promoted from the B team by him. There's a reason most B players are considered *either* for promotion or for loan. This is all semantics anyways though, we both know counting Rafinha is just padding Lucho's La Masia numbers for the sake of argument.

Include Rafinha and dont count Masip or Denis and it is three in three years against five in four. Not a massive difference as some would like to make out and Pep had the better players to promote.

But the manner in which players are promoted matters. Munir and Sandro count as promotions but they're also a huge stain on Lucho's handling of La Masia at the same time. Sandro was promoted as a backup for another player who was promoted as a backup. One was released on a free and the other was loaned in favor of spending 30m on a striker who is better in theory but much worse when actually on the pitch. That only leaves Rafinha and we could argue over whether he was promoted or not all day (Not one of the other players we can agree on left the club at all between the second and first teams). But then there's the omissions from Lucho that made little sense, the ones that give him his reputation of not giving a damn about La Masia. His decision to let us lose games constantly in favor of even giving Grimaldo a debut in a friendly. Loaning out Samper (Who admittedly wasn't completely ready) for spending 35m on Gomes (Who absolutely wasn't ready). Expelling Deulofeu for being lazy and not running and later signing Arda Turan who openly bragged about leaving Atletico so he wouldn't have to run, for 40m. Loaning Munir to sign Paco for 30m. Ignoring Palencia and Nilli when we don't even have a RB in the squad (You can say he's not good enough but he's played well with Barca B and could have proven himself to be good enough for the first team in plenty of situations that didn't harm the team, the same way Arda scored X amount of goals in Y amount of games that didn't help the team at all). Calling Gumbau from the B team as a means of trolling the fanbase. And all this is without even mentioning the way he constantly called up B team players and actually used them, many of which he never even promoted- oh, wait, that was Pep. Lucho himself very rarely calls up B team players, except for when Suarez was banned and a short string in 2015 where he trolled us with Gumbau.

Edit: If you think about it, looking at our current team and the players who replaced the La Masia players who aren't good enough, Lucho could very easily have more promotions in these three years than Pep had. Terrible transfer policy and an ignorance of La Masia has caused us to have the weak squad that we are currently stuck with, and now we don't necessarily have the money to fix it.
 
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JamDav1982

Senior Member
Rafinha was basically promoted under Lucho. If another manager comes in and puts Samper in the first team squad he is getting the credit for that.

It is about how many la masia/b team players a manager takes into the first team squad and Lucho did that with him.

He isnt ignoring Palencia or Nilli for any reason other than he doesnt think they are good enough and Pep did the exact same thing.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
So noone in 3 years hasn't been good enough even as backup?

Other than Grimaldo who he didnt seem to like the attitude of I dont think anyone really deserved to be called up.

Mistakes on signing players they thought should have been better doesnt really change that.

Had Lucho stayed and not promoted Alena this summer that would have been different for me.
 

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
How many players did Pep promote in four years compared to Lucho in three?

In his 1st 3 years Pep has promoted Jeffren,Pedro & Busquets. while Lucho promoted Masip,Sandro & Munir. Worth noting it was when Pep came directly from B team,he coached all of them
4th year depend on your definition of promotion as he added only Thiago to the mix but Tello and Cuenca was used too but wasn't officially promoted under him.
 
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jamrock

Senior Member
I don't know why you guys are using the term officially promoted.

Pep gave players chances, real chances not just a minute here and there.

Players like rafa, got there first taste of first team football under pep, and not garbage minutes.

Also Gomes will cost something like 60m when it's all said and done 60!!!!!!. Think about that every time we talk about samper not being good enough or ready

60m!!!! For Gomes
40m for Paco

These aren't players that no one knew about, so one could say it was a unknown risk, they were never good enough for Barca from day 1 and I along with anyone with a once of sense, knew and said as much.

Not not mention Turan. 40m, Jesus Christ when you think how crap Luis as been in the transfer market, because all they players are ones he wanted to sign, yet he couldn't give players from the youth a chance, you realize this man maybe a good manager, but is clearly a poor judge of talent.
 

Aryagorn

Improvin' Perfection!!
I don't know why you guys are using the term officially promoted.

Pep gave players chances, real chances not just a minute here and there.

Players like rafa, got there first taste of first team football under pep, and not garbage minutes.

Also Gomes will cost something like 60m when it's all said and done 60!!!!!!. Think about that every time we talk about samper not being good enough or ready

60m!!!! For Gomes
40m for Paco

These aren't players that no one knew about, so one could say it was a unknown risk, they were never good enough for Barca from day 1 and I along with anyone with a once of sense, knew and said as much.

Not not mention Turan. 40m, Jesus Christ when you think how crap Luis as been in the transfer market, because all they players are ones he wanted to sign, yet he couldn't give players from the youth a chance, you realize this man maybe a good manager, but is clearly a poor judge of talent.
Transfer of Arda cannot be blamed on Lucho..... We had to sign some body who's ready to stay on bench for 6 months straight!

What he is answerable to when it comes to that transfer window, however, is playing Arda in mid field and always ruining our flow of the game....... time & again. His stupid rotation policy and not using Vidal properly.

And of course Gomes & Paco from the previous window instead of using the youth properly. It is actually understandable in the sense that they never would have gotten so many minutes had they stayed with us, surely. But only if the replacements would have been any good instead of further paralyzing the starters!
 

jamrock

Senior Member
True,but I think a lot more players would be willing to sit out six months than we think, that's just getting paid to be on a extended vacation.
 

God Serena

New member
True,but I think a lot more players would be willing to sit out six months than we think, that's just getting paid to be on a extended vacation.

It's 4 months and change spent on the bench, not 6 months. Summer months hardly count, nobody is playing then.
 

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
True,but I think a lot more players would be willing to sit out six months than we think, that's just getting paid to be on a extended vacation.

No high profile player will accept that tbh, just like Paco who was signed after many players rejected to come and play behind MSN Arda was desperate to join us and Paco was desperate to leave Valencia.
That doesn't mean we should have signed them,it was a mistake. But I still think that basing the argument of not using youth on the bad signing is rubbish (no disrespect intended).
And didn't Lucho has the highest number of players making their debut with first team? Because if the argument is officially promoted or gave them debut he it is close in both,if it is about using them then the fact still stand that he had way lower level of talent to work with
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Lucho promoted two: Munir and Sandro. Pep promoted Pedro, Busquets, Tello, Cuenca, JDS, Thiago (AND THEN HE STOLE HIM FROM US PEP YOU WILL NEVER BE FORGIVEN), and... I think that's it. 6 promotions compared to Lucho's two and Munir and Sandro were comparatively less relied on when compared to Cuenca and Tello.

Lord Gumbau? He failed, but 8 matches in 2015/16 is a nice number of matches...
 

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