FC Barcelona Tactics

[Catalonian Devil]

Since there is too much garbage in the match thread, I though this would be a better place to try to analyze the problems with our team.

Being 6 points is not nice, however there are 75 more points to go. Having said that turning a blind eye to the problems with Barcelona this season would be foolish.

One thing I've noticed wit our tactics is how dependent we have become on Messi. Villa and Pedro have not really stepped up this season, and Alexis while has looked good when given the chance, is yet to get regular playing time and is not really linking up with Messi the way I had hoped. When Messi looks average the whole team looks average, which is worrying to be honest. I think Pep needs to focus on solution that doesn't involve the attack always going through Messi, who has been basically in the center of any goal that mattered this season.

Usually Alves provides us with a good option down the right flank, but he has not been spreading the opponent's defense the way he should be. His crossing has been rather poor as well, I believe the fact that we have been using 3-4-3 often hasn't helped him get into the groove either. We have not been seeing the Alves-Messi link-up that used to tear the defenses apart game in game out.

Our midfield is the only area that looks to have improved with the introduction of Thiago, who has been a very reliable Xavi/Iniesta cover. Iniesta showing flashbacks of his injury prone self isn't fun to see, but I don't think that is our problem this season. Busi has also been doing fine.

Amidst all the rotation and experimentation, there is one positive that we should build on going forward to be honest.

The incredible chemistry between Messi and Fabregas.

If we look back at our good performances, the Messi - Cesc duo was always present. Given the decline of quality from the wings in our front line I think its time to start reshaping our attack force to take advantage of what has actually been working and more importantly consistently producing results. I know there has been some hate towards Cesc which is also fueled by the fanboyism he brought with him, however we have to put our feeling aside and think about whats best for our team. If Pep focuses on building the frontline around this duo IMO, our form will change.

Now moving on to our defense, not many will like this but its time to keep it real. Pique is looking like a liability with no Puyol next to him, I thought that was a myth but he hasn't done much to convince me it is. The Mascherano- Abidal has looked far more solid than anything involving Pique so far. Puyol is getting older and is losing his consistency, however on his day he by far our best defender. Since we need Abidal at LB, we need to figure out who should be partnering Mascherano, who IMO should be the first name in our CB pairing in a 4 man backline. I'm glad we're getting back Botia next season as by that time it will be crucial to have a dependable CB with the way things are looking, and he'll cost us nothing and has been looking very reliable. Now back to this season, if Pique doesn't start looking more solid, we could be in trouble at the back.

Now summing everything up and basing a formation on what has been working and producing results this season, this should be our strongest lineup IMO:

--------------------VV-----------------------
--------Mascherano---Pique/Puyol--Abidal
--A----------------Busquets/Thiago----------
---L------Xavi/Thiago------------------------
---V------------------Iniesta/Keita------------
----E------Cesc------Messi-------------------
----S------------------------Sanchez/Villa/Pedro

With the players on the left being the first option.

Of course we won't be playing our best S11 every game, therefore Pep has been experimenting with many different formations. Like Irv pointed out in another thread, with the fixture pile-up on the way it is crucial to find a good secondary formation to switch into between games. It is also important to transition between 4-3-3 and the 3-4-3 in games that need a plan B. People have always been calling for a plan B, well have a perfect one here..

The 4-3-3 I posted above should be our primary line-up in clutch matches , however there are games against lesser opponents where we will need to rotate. Having said that it is important to give this 4-3-3 a decent run of games to get some sort of rhythm going, and get Alves back into his groove. Now when rotating and going for the 3-4-3, it could be either for resting purposes or plan B purposes:

--------------------VV------------------------
----Alves------Mascherano/Pique---Abidal
-----------------Busi------------------------------
-------Xavi/Thiago-------Iniesta/Thiago/Keita--------
--------------Messi/Iniesta-----------------------
---Cuenca/Adriano--Cesc/Villa-----Pedro/Sanchez


Of course the selection will depend on whether we are trying to rest players, or whether we are transitioning to a plan B during a game.

The line-up going with players left of the / is our 'plan B' 3-4-3, while the one with the players on the right should be our 'resting' 3-4-3. Playing Pedro/Sanchez is absolutely crucial to a 3-4-3 as they are the best at racking back and making up for the lack of full backs, which could cost up against counter-attacking sides. Cuenca/Adriano is just as crucial on the other side as both players provide a much needed width in a 3-4-3. The midfield is pretty selfexplantory, with Thiago being our versatile cover, a crucial player in our 3-4-3. Cesc does best when played as a number 10 in the 3-4-3 with Messi playing more as playmaker, which can also be a role fulfilled by the Don in case Messi needs a rest. Villa will be an option as a proper number 9 in case Cesc needs a rest. The plan B 3-4-3 gives us a great alternative while maintaining the dominating Messi-Cesc presence, while the 'resting/rotation' 3-4-3 provides a decent selection as well...

In summary these are the main areas that we should focus on to improve going forward IMO, in order of importance

- Build our offense around Messi-Cesc, get them more playing time together.
- Address the issues with Pique.
- Get Alves into his groove and revive the Messi-Alves link-up, which should happen when we use 4-3-3 more consistently.
- Start using the right players in the right positions when playing 3-4-3, which Pep hasn't been doing so far IMO


Looking back I kind of contradicted myself when saying we are reliant too much on Messi and now most of the issues and formations I highlighted involve him

I guess when you have the best player in the world you have to build your team around him, we should still learn to cope better without everything going through him though...

Sorry if this was too long to read...

 

[FiReFTW]

Good post but I don't agree about Abidal, I think he has been very unrealiable and a liability this season, starting from the pre season matches to now, I can't seem to remember one great performance from him, but I do remember quite alot of mistakes leading to goals.

 

[Catalonian Devil]

Good post but I don't agree about Abidal, I think he has been very unrealiable and a liability this season, starting from the pre season matches to now, I can't seem to remember one great performance from him, but I do remember quite alot of mistakes leading to goals.

I never said Abidal has been reliable, however, the Macherano - Abidal has by far looked our best CB pairing this season.

Still though an in form Pique or a fit Puyol is a better partner to Mascherano, and besides Abidal is needed at LB anyways.

 

[gingerless]

great post. we can use adriano as lb in place of abidal imo he is very solid.

today, looking at messi was painful really, he made his usual runs but he was as marked out of the game as he can get (he dropped really deep and looked like the messi of argentina today). i completely agree that we should work with the cesc-messi chemistry, it's almost telepathic and cesc makes very smart runs into the box where other players don't. his finishing is excellent too, the best of our midfielders. messi always finds him, he always finds messi. but in your first formation i think messi should be swapped with cesc for link-up with alves and messi's deadly curving crosses/angled passes into the middle of the penalty box which almost always come from that position.

this change to the forward line imo is essential for the clasico and i'd been hoping pep was going to use this a lot more frequently than he has

 

[Catalonian Devil]

great post. we can use adriano as lb in place of abidal imo he is very solid.

today, looking at messi was painful really, he made his usual runs but he was as marked out of the game as he can get (he dropped really deep and looked like the messi of argentina today). i completely agree that we should work with the cesc-messi chemistry, it's almost telepathic and cesc makes very smart runs into the box where other players don't. his finishing is excellent too, the best of our midfielders. messi always finds him, he always finds messi. but in your first formation i think messi should be swapped with cesc for link-up with alves and messi's deadly curving crosses/angled passes into the middle of the penalty box which almost always come from that position.

this change to the forward line imo is essential for the clasico and i'd been hoping pep was going to use this a lot more frequently than he has

Definitely.

I considered Adriano as an alternative to Abidal at LB but from what I recall he has always looked a lot less comfortable on the left than on the right. His best position IMO is the right flank in a 3-4-3 as he provides excellent width and is capable of stretching the defense and supplying deadly low crosses as we have seen many times before. I guess he's also a good cover for Alves in a 4-3-3 when he needs a rest or gets injured. I just don't like what I see from him down the left side..

 

[jamrock]

the slight flaw in the argument is that if we are going to develop the cesc messi partnership, then it will come at the expense of the messi alves partnership.

you can develop a attacking link between the three, but not the other way around, as it will come at the expense of another.

which would mean us trying the 4-4-2 diamond which will get them all in the same team, while maintaining balance

for me our best XI this season is


---Alves---Masch--Pique---Abidal

-------------Busquets

------Xavi--------------Iniesta

---------------Cesc

--------Messi-------+1

which would just as easly turn into pep's 3-4-3

 

[Catalonian Devil]

the slight flaw in the argument is that if we are going to develop the cesc messi partnership, then it will come at the expense of the messi alves partnership.

you can develop a attacking link between the three, but not the other way around, as it will come at the expense of another.

which would mean us trying the 4-4-2 diamond which will get them all in the same team, while maintaining balance

for me our best XI this season is


---Alves---Masch--Pique---Abidal

-------------Busquets

------Xavi--------------Iniesta

---------------Cesc

--------Messi-------+1

which would just as easly turn into pep's 3-4-3

Well that's basically the same lineup I posted as a 4-3-3, but I guess you could look at is as a 4-4-2 as well. Messi and Cesc position are interchangable as we have seen both play the playmaking/finishing role interchangably...

I don't see how the Cesc Messi partnership has anything to do with the Alves - Messi link-up. I think those 3 can easily terrorize defenses with some nasty one-twos, be it either between Messi and Alves down the right, or Messi and Cesc through the middle...

I wouldn't think that formation can be a 3-4-3 though, as one of Mach and Pique has to come off for it to become so. Pushing Alves up and leaving the the other 3 to form a 3 man defense is a bad idea imo. This is because Alves's pace is crucial to a 3 man defense. That is precisely why we suffered this season when going with a 3-4-3 without Alves, as Macherano/Puyol always get isolated at the right and get easily beaten for pace. This won't happen with Alves at the back, who has been surprisingly very well disciplined in that role imo...

 

[rmpcsl]

IMHO Barça need (especially against this 10 men defending team) to open up with the wingers and the full backs cause there is no space in the middle, today was clear Xavi wanted to pass the ball and Messi Alexis and Villa parked in the midlle along with a bunch of defenders plus Maxwell never helped to open space.

Kinda like this could work:

Alves...........Pique.............Abi or Puyol..........Alba

............................Masch
(Masch here cause Busquets cannot defend like him "specially the corner kicks" plus could form a 3 man defence when we have possession free our full backs to attack and allow Cesc to support more often Messi)

........Xavi/Thiago...................Cesc/Keita(booth good headers and shooters outside the box)

Alexis/Affelay/Messi..........Messi/Cavani/Llorente(plan B)............Iniesta/Pedro

then Messi gets down to the midfield and Cesc enter to the box our wingers/full backs crosses the ball to a header by Cesc (like the beautiful Bilbao goal) plus they will have more space to combine between the two if the wingers open on the flanks

Plus I would buy a pure striker too for plan B cause like today Messi seemed tired and we need other options cause he isn't made of iron! and Villa for me is a good player but is too similar to Pedro or Alexis and very predictable IMHO maybe a guy like Cavani/Llorente or similar type of striker would be useful since our wingers/full backs can easily drible and cross the ball to a pure striker score.

The 4-4-2 tactic IMO would pack the midle even more then last games so the other team busses would stop us easily.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[Birdy]

@Devil
1) Why dont you consider alexis and pedro both on pitch in a 3-4-3.. Remember Villarreal, the night when the 3-4-3 was born?
i agree Cuenca and Adriano are good covers, especially in the 3-4-3, but Pedro + alexis should be starting not only in the 3-4-3, but also in the 4-3-3..

2) Also, Alves, whenever played as winger, has been poor.. The guy should start from the back and storm forward coming from the second lines as always..
Plus that , his pace might be an advantage at the back in a 3-4-3, but his positioning in a back of three is a tragedy.. So, versus any significant opponent,i dont think it would be clever.. Of course Barcelona against bottom teams anything can work wonders..
Regarding his cross, the big bystery with Dany is that he seems every year all the more reluctant to shoot and all the poorer when crossing. I look back to 08-09 and see a great difference in both areas. Dont know why really..

3) I dons see such of a problem at the defence. On the contrary, what we have seen is games where we struggled upfront.
Abidal is our quickest defender, so he is very important for us. Puyol never really gave a bad performance this season so far.. Pique also. He was far more a liability last season around february-march-april (remember the shakira comments?)
What i dont like in our defence is :
- that mascherano has never been comfortable with the position particularly in the way we build the attack starting from valdes. I miss the puyol-pique of 08-10. i really think we should see them together in the classico..
- that we still need a LB.. Abidal is our only LB. But he plays also at CB and his is not that young (plus health problems) to play every game.. Maxwell is more than terrible and Adriano is not that good at LB, as he comes always inside to his right foot and fails to stretch the play.. After all he was actually bought to be alves sub at the right..

4)You always gain something at the expense of something else..
you cannot have Cesc in and also safe defence..
Cesc can only play in the special role in the 3-4-3..
-if you remove iniesta or xavi or Busquets everything collapses as we all know.. Cesc also whenever played with one of the two as internal md, he was very very poor..
-If you remove a winger (as in your first formation) it is either a 3-4-3 in disguise with alves as a winger(alves poor as a winger, so probably failure) or a strange 4-3-3 with cesc or messi as wingers (or no winger at the right)
In any case, i think it is not good. we can all fantasize about Alves mythical ability to play the whole wing, but in serious games this will be not working..
Imagine Madrid. If no pedro or alexis tracks marcelo and you have alves against both marcelo and ronaldo, then he will probably not be able to cope and masch or puyol will be forced to come out to the right leaving pique and abidal versus benzema and dimaria in a 2vs2...
Not good!

3-4-3 has shown so far that is a good alternative (not healing everything) in order to break buses, teams that like to stay back and defend deep and narrow.. And also versus specific opponents (like villareal). But it so unstable at the back.. Even in San Siro, Milan created a lot of problems to us in the open play.. Who? Milan.. Unacceptable versus any better side..

Our first formation should remain, at least versus serious opponents, the 4-3-3 as you know it.
Cesc should stay at the bench and be ready to enter the field to play in his usual role in the 3-4-3 as plan B...
And this is the point we totally agree.. We finally found a plan B.. And Cesc fits, so far, only inside this plan..
In cases (like inter 2010 camp nou) where something else is needed, pep can opt for that.. But it is a plan B..
Lets not overreact and make it plan A..
it will do no good..

 

[Vegy]

Good post but I don't agree about Abidal, I think he has been very unrealiable and a liability this season, starting from the pre season matches to now, I can't seem to remember one great performance from him, but I do remember quite alot of mistakes leading to goals.

So what is a good performance by Abidal? When he scores goals or makes ground tackles with his head? It is easy to forget those crucial tackles and interceptions a defender makes in the game and hard to forget those he didn't. I think he's been quite good so far and is still the best LB we have. He has been low performing in some of the big games(Real, Milan, Valencia..) but he's been his usual self in the others.

And I think our Alves-Puyol-Pique-Abidal backline is still the strongest pick of the bunch. Macherano has been superb so far and I'm not taking anything away from him but our team needs to have the aerial presence of Pique in the back and he's operating best if Puyol is alongside him. But I would like to see more of Montoya and Fontas in the first team and less of Maxwell(PSG?).

Also, Pep NEEDS to rest Messi sometimes. I understand that he's Pivotal to our team in every way and that they are taking care of our talisman so he can avoid injuries and play as many matches as he can, but sometimes you just feel as a spectator that he isn't as fresh as he should out there. This season we have more firepower upfront than this team has EVER had - Thiago, Villa, Fabregas, Pedro, Alexis.. etc.. can all play in his position and while they may not make as much of an impact in the games as he does, they can help this team to get over the overdependency on our little magician, give more minutes to everyone and keep Messi more fresh/motivated for the big games.

And finally, in my opinion, our lineups should look like this:

Plan A:
Alves-Puyol-Pique-Abidal
Xavi-Busquets-Iniesta
Alexis-Messi-Villa

Subs:
Macherano
Adriano
Keita
Thiago
Pedro
Fabregas

Plan B:

Puyol-Pique-Abidal
Alves-Xavi-Busquets-Adriano
Alexis-Messi-Iniesta

Subs:
Macherano
Keita
Thiago
Fabregas
Pedro
Villa

*Alves and Adriano in mid 4 because of their defensive ability. Both are quite good going forward and can track back opposition wingers if needed. Also, if someones tries the tactics Valencia used(overattacking one wing) then one of them can slot into the RB/LB position and one of the CB-s can slide into the other LB/RB position, turning the overall formation into 4-3-3(albeit a little unusual one - with one of the wingers moving more forward).

 

[MagIX]

http://www.whoscored.com/Blog/w7bcj...la-May-Opt-for-a-3-man-Backline-in-El-Clasico

 

[gingerless]

O_O

 

[XavIniesta_6]

Those are some very interesting stats, but it makes a lot of sense if you really think about it. We have the ball a lot more with the 4-3-3 because of the obvious midfield overload. And that helps with winning the ball back deep in the oppositions territory. But the right mix is really needed for that formation to actually work. One of them being Puyol playing at LCB so he can cover for Alves. It worked really well against Madrid, but even then we played a 3-5-2 if you really think about it.

 

[Flavia]

http://www.whoscored.com/Blog/w7bcj...la-May-Opt-for-a-3-man-Backline-in-El-Clasico

That's a surprise for me.

 

[Birdy]

Those are some very interesting stats, but it makes a lot of sense if you really think about it

Actually, they are very ambiguous and some of them are questionable (fast breaks conceded) how did they measure it exactly..
Besides, it depends also on the players that cover those positions. It would be better to compare best 4-3-3 versus best 3-4-3..