veryfatchocobo
New member
Problem is 100% Roura. The club should try to deal with Pep until the end of the season <_<
FC Barcelona Tactics
- Thread starter IrvDizzle
- Start date
I'd like to see us experimenting a bit with formation next season once Tito gets back, like we used to when Pep was here.
We're no strangers to 3-4-3 but Tito wouldn't change it much even with 3-5-2 (other system we also played back in Cruyff's days).
What are we losing, what are we gaining? Obviously 2 wide forwards from 4-3-3 are gone but the width is still there provided by our former fullbacks Alves and Alba. There's also 1 man less at the back, but then again there's an extra defender, a proper defender, instead of 2 defenders + 2 attacking full backs.
Up-front is naturally Messi partnered with someone like Cavani, or more realistically, Lewandowski. Someone who adds something different and yet a mobile player covering lots of space.
I think we definitely need some new blood to keep the squad motivated (something that club has been doing already) and few tweaks in formation. Philosophy and style shouldn't change much. Once Tito is back, things should fall back in place. We often forget that he's been here since Pep took over and knows a lot more than we imagine.
We're no strangers to 3-4-3 but Tito wouldn't change it much even with 3-5-2 (other system we also played back in Cruyff's days).
What are we losing, what are we gaining? Obviously 2 wide forwards from 4-3-3 are gone but the width is still there provided by our former fullbacks Alves and Alba. There's also 1 man less at the back, but then again there's an extra defender, a proper defender, instead of 2 defenders + 2 attacking full backs.
Up-front is naturally Messi partnered with someone like Cavani, or more realistically, Lewandowski. Someone who adds something different and yet a mobile player covering lots of space.
I think we definitely need some new blood to keep the squad motivated (something that club has been doing already) and few tweaks in formation. Philosophy and style shouldn't change much. Once Tito is back, things should fall back in place. We often forget that he's been here since Pep took over and knows a lot more than we imagine.
Isaac_Cuenca23
New member
The UEFA website has a couple of interesting documents that are good for analysing Barca's performances. The below image shows comprehensive passing stats included the total number of passes and percentage accuracy for individual players and the team as a whole, the distances of each pass, the total number of passes received by each player and my personal favourite - the number of passes played between players, ie passes played by Xavi to Iniesta.
The headline stats are that Xavi completed the most passes (99) and Busquets had the best completion percentage (87%).
However, looking at the from/to stats shows some interesting results. Busquets to Xavi was the most common passing outcome (26) and Xavi to Busquets was the second most common (21). One that stands out for me is the high number of passes from Busquets to Messi (16), this shows that Messi was Busquets' second most preferred passing outcome, which is significant for me as it shows how Busquets looked to play midfield splitting passes and get the ball to Messi frequently.
Another headline stat is that David Villa received just 15 passes in his 75 mins on the pitch and actually completed just 6 passed in that time. This shows that although he played a central role he was largely anonymous and Barca's attacking focus came from Messi (62 passes received) and the wingers Dani Alves (46 passes received) and Pedro (40 passes received). However, this matters little when Villa scores a goal from one of his rare received passes.
The headline stats are that Xavi completed the most passes (99) and Busquets had the best completion percentage (87%).
However, looking at the from/to stats shows some interesting results. Busquets to Xavi was the most common passing outcome (26) and Xavi to Busquets was the second most common (21). One that stands out for me is the high number of passes from Busquets to Messi (16), this shows that Messi was Busquets' second most preferred passing outcome, which is significant for me as it shows how Busquets looked to play midfield splitting passes and get the ball to Messi frequently.
Another headline stat is that David Villa received just 15 passes in his 75 mins on the pitch and actually completed just 6 passed in that time. This shows that although he played a central role he was largely anonymous and Barca's attacking focus came from Messi (62 passes received) and the wingers Dani Alves (46 passes received) and Pedro (40 passes received). However, this matters little when Villa scores a goal from one of his rare received passes.
darthvader7888
Banned
The UEFA website has a couple of interesting documents that are good for analysing Barca's performances. The below image shows comprehensive passing stats included the total number of passes and percentage accuracy for individual players and the team as a whole, the distances of each pass, the total number of passes received by each player and my personal favourite - the number of passes played between players, ie passes played by Xavi to Iniesta.
The headline stats are that Xavi completed the most passes (99) and Busquets had the best completion percentage (87%).
However, looking at the from/to stats shows some interesting results. Busquets to Xavi was the most common passing outcome (26) and Xavi to Busquets was the second most common (21). One that stands out for me is the high number of passes from Busquets to Messi (16), this shows that Messi was Busquets' second most preferred passing outcome, which is significant for me as it shows how Busquets looked to play midfield splitting passes and get the ball to Messi frequently.
Another headline stat is that David Villa received just 15 passes in his 75 mins on the pitch and actually completed just 6 passed in that time. This shows that although he played a central role he was largely anonymous and Barca's attacking focus came from Messi (62 passes received) and the wingers Dani Alves (46 passes received) and Pedro (40 passes received). However, this matters little when Villa scores a goal from one of his rare received passes.
Not to mention Villa's presence itself affects the game, as it takes defenders off Messi, and provides another goal threat. The most important changes that were made to the lineup on Tuesday were putting Iniesta back in midfield and Villa up front.
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BerkeleyBernie
Senior Member
Exactly.
When Messi plays as Villa did (up against the CBs), he receives as few passes as Villa. It's a matter of the function of the position as part of Barça's tactics, not the player. Messi only gets passes as CF when he drops back to midfield as a false nine. Against Milan, Villa stayed pinned up front. When Messi plays CF and leaves that position to drop into midfield, there is no pressure up front on the CBs.
Change tactics in Away Legs in Champion's League
To me , in champions league , Barca has to change the tactics in ALL THE the Away Leg in champions league, we are conceiving many goals, our defense is a real problem. For this reason , I think Alexandre Song and Busquets in the middle , with xavi , and iniesta left forward with messi and pedro or villa . Our game is getting really steoreotyped, when there is no intensity , we are a random team. Indeed, all the europeans teams in the CHampion's know our tactics and our way of playing. They don't fight for the possesion, they play tactically ,with a well structured defensive lines when they don't have the ball. And when barca looses the ball , they play every oppurtunity at 100 % , with counter attacks ,free kicks and corners. With Song and Busquets in the middle, it's a efficient tactics for two reasons : busquets will not be longer alone to cut the counter attacks , and for free kicks and corners Song can add he's strength in the air which is very important in these matches, where all details counts. Also, Iniesta and xavi will more focus on organizing the attacks with less efforts to make in defense due to Busquets AND Song, they will save more energy to serve Messi in his position of false 9 and Pedro with pedro at the left , we can compensate the the free space on the right with the rushes of dani alves on the right ! I think this is the perfect formation against a Team like Madrid for instance. If you take a look , Teams scores on barca in these two ways most of time : COUNTER ATTACKS AND FREE KICKS , CORNERS ! Our team will have more stability in away legs in this way.
To me , in champions league , Barca has to change the tactics in ALL THE the Away Leg in champions league, we are conceiving many goals, our defense is a real problem. For this reason , I think Alexandre Song and Busquets in the middle , with xavi , and iniesta left forward with messi and pedro or villa . Our game is getting really steoreotyped, when there is no intensity , we are a random team. Indeed, all the europeans teams in the CHampion's know our tactics and our way of playing. They don't fight for the possesion, they play tactically ,with a well structured defensive lines when they don't have the ball. And when barca looses the ball , they play every oppurtunity at 100 % , with counter attacks ,free kicks and corners. With Song and Busquets in the middle, it's a efficient tactics for two reasons : busquets will not be longer alone to cut the counter attacks , and for free kicks and corners Song can add he's strength in the air which is very important in these matches, where all details counts. Also, Iniesta and xavi will more focus on organizing the attacks with less efforts to make in defense due to Busquets AND Song, they will save more energy to serve Messi in his position of false 9 and Pedro with pedro at the left , we can compensate the the free space on the right with the rushes of dani alves on the right ! I think this is the perfect formation against a Team like Madrid for instance. If you take a look , Teams scores on barca in these two ways most of time : COUNTER ATTACKS AND FREE KICKS , CORNERS ! Our team will have more stability in away legs in this way.
ceefoo
New member
Bayern vs Barca
There seems to be a lot of head scratching going on of late between MGMT. Either by Tito, or his right-hand man Roura, and not a lot of action regarding tactical changes in-game.
For example: Looking back at Bayern away. Bayern's fourth goal was scored when Dani Alves was off the pitch getting treatment for an injury.
So what happens when your Right-Back is off the field? You would think that the RWF (Pedro) would fill in for him until he returns wouldn't you?
Well no, this didn't happen. And as a direct result, Bayern exploited this and scored.
Ribery and Alaba managed to work a two-on-one on our right flank against Bartra who had no option but to engage, due to Dani's absence. Pedro, still up field, belatedly realizes the danger, and attempts to get back. But by which time it's too late.
Now how does a top-class team get caught like this, with it's pants down in such a critical match?
Is there not a contingency plan for this kind of scenario?
Why aren't the coaching staff communicating this to the team and organizing the defence?
Neither the coaching staff, nor Captain (Xavi), made any attempt to resolve this. Or so it appeared.
And then to rub salt into the wound. With the team trailing by four goals and 82 minutes on the clock, Tito decides it is then the right moment to make a substitution. Bewilderment!
Such basic lapses of tactical awareness and indecision has made me question the Barca coaching staff and their future roles within the club, and determine they are not fit to take the club forward.
There seems to be a lot of head scratching going on of late between MGMT. Either by Tito, or his right-hand man Roura, and not a lot of action regarding tactical changes in-game.
For example: Looking back at Bayern away. Bayern's fourth goal was scored when Dani Alves was off the pitch getting treatment for an injury.
So what happens when your Right-Back is off the field? You would think that the RWF (Pedro) would fill in for him until he returns wouldn't you?
Well no, this didn't happen. And as a direct result, Bayern exploited this and scored.
Ribery and Alaba managed to work a two-on-one on our right flank against Bartra who had no option but to engage, due to Dani's absence. Pedro, still up field, belatedly realizes the danger, and attempts to get back. But by which time it's too late.
Now how does a top-class team get caught like this, with it's pants down in such a critical match?
Is there not a contingency plan for this kind of scenario?
Why aren't the coaching staff communicating this to the team and organizing the defence?
Neither the coaching staff, nor Captain (Xavi), made any attempt to resolve this. Or so it appeared.
And then to rub salt into the wound. With the team trailing by four goals and 82 minutes on the clock, Tito decides it is then the right moment to make a substitution. Bewilderment!
Such basic lapses of tactical awareness and indecision has made me question the Barca coaching staff and their future roles within the club, and determine they are not fit to take the club forward.
ebieymjunior
Senior Member
The Last Man
Barcelona should play with a commanding libero (last man) that is perfect position-wise and communicates with the other 4 defenders: a CB and the fullbacks in one line in front of him, with the DM a bit further up working as a hybrid CB/DM (which is already the case for Barcelona).
It's so amazingly secure, cause if the attacker gets past the CB, the libero has a chance of defending him, while both CBs on one line allows the attacker to pass them by at once. It also really helps against counterattacking teams, cause the libero sees the whole pitch in front of him, which makes going past him a lot more difficult (and communication a lot easier).
It's all about tactics and leadership (the kind of leadership that Puyol/Silva/Muniesa types of defenders have)
e.g. 1. If the opposing CF sticks to the libero deep, he moves up on one line with the other 3, then tracks back to his position, leaving the CF on that line, where he eventually stays by the CB.
e.g. 2. If one of the FBs goes forward (they should interchange who goes), the libero takes his place, and they form a 3 man defence line.
It essentially gives the libero space to roam between the keeper and the other defenders to close/open up the field, confuse the opposition and play around with the offside trap.
The libero doesn't do as much physical work as the CB, who's always in contact with the attacker, but he needs to command them in every area of the game (and even shout at/motivate them at times), especially on corners, where he should stick between the keeper and the back post to guard it. It's perfect for "injury-prone"/old players, cause they don't TOO MUCH physical work all the time (more mental work, vision and extreme concentration).
Teams were scoring at will against my team until we used and perfected this defensive system, and it really worked well (when well executed). When we got the hang of it, we went 5-6 straight games without conceding one goal, throughout the season.
BTW: I was really disappointed with Xavi when he got so discouraged after going down 2 or 3-0 against Bayern. I guess he's not used to losing (so badly), but that's when the team needs their captain the most (he's arguably the coach on the pitch). That's why Puyol is such a great one. He never loses hope and always keep on motivating the team (getting rid of any kind of complacency along with it), and constantly talks to them.
That's why Muniesa must get a new contract and go on loan if he won't get enough playing time, or don't loan him out at all and let him learn from Silva, cause he'll be one of the best in a few years time. He could well play libero behind Bartra.
I could just imagine the Masia team that they could play with in 3 years time, with a perfect rotation.
Starting Lineup Next Season
Would like to see this starting lineup often next season (again, with a good rotation).
With these subs: Pinto, Muniesa, Bartra, Puyol, Alves, Adriano, Song, Roberto, Xavi, Pedro, Deulofeu, Alexis/Villa.
Dat attack(ing speed), dat midfield, dat defence :emotions16:, dat depth, …
Sell Mascherano (to Napoli), Affelay, Cesc (to Manchester United, if only to give Thiago - he'll stay - his number 4 back and playing time for Roberto) and Villa (or Alexis).
Sell Dos Santos, Fontas (done) and Bojan with buy-back clauses.
Loan out Cuenca, Rafinha, and if necessary Deulofeu.
Buy Neymar (done), and Thiago Silva (the defenders - especially the young ones - need a person they can learn from, with Puyol being injured).
And finally stop playing Adriano or Song at CB, ever!!!
Tito gets a lot of slack (partly deserved), but if he pulls the strings right next season and doesn't listen to Roura's advices, we should be set for a treble + Super Cup.
Sorry for the long article, but as a defender and a long time Barcelona fan, I always suffer to see them mess up at the back while there are many ways to avoid it.
Barcelona should play with a commanding libero (last man) that is perfect position-wise and communicates with the other 4 defenders: a CB and the fullbacks in one line in front of him, with the DM a bit further up working as a hybrid CB/DM (which is already the case for Barcelona).
It's so amazingly secure, cause if the attacker gets past the CB, the libero has a chance of defending him, while both CBs on one line allows the attacker to pass them by at once. It also really helps against counterattacking teams, cause the libero sees the whole pitch in front of him, which makes going past him a lot more difficult (and communication a lot easier).
It's all about tactics and leadership (the kind of leadership that Puyol/Silva/Muniesa types of defenders have)
e.g. 1. If the opposing CF sticks to the libero deep, he moves up on one line with the other 3, then tracks back to his position, leaving the CF on that line, where he eventually stays by the CB.
e.g. 2. If one of the FBs goes forward (they should interchange who goes), the libero takes his place, and they form a 3 man defence line.
It essentially gives the libero space to roam between the keeper and the other defenders to close/open up the field, confuse the opposition and play around with the offside trap.
The libero doesn't do as much physical work as the CB, who's always in contact with the attacker, but he needs to command them in every area of the game (and even shout at/motivate them at times), especially on corners, where he should stick between the keeper and the back post to guard it. It's perfect for "injury-prone"/old players, cause they don't TOO MUCH physical work all the time (more mental work, vision and extreme concentration).
Teams were scoring at will against my team until we used and perfected this defensive system, and it really worked well (when well executed). When we got the hang of it, we went 5-6 straight games without conceding one goal, throughout the season.
BTW: I was really disappointed with Xavi when he got so discouraged after going down 2 or 3-0 against Bayern. I guess he's not used to losing (so badly), but that's when the team needs their captain the most (he's arguably the coach on the pitch). That's why Puyol is such a great one. He never loses hope and always keep on motivating the team (getting rid of any kind of complacency along with it), and constantly talks to them.
That's why Muniesa must get a new contract and go on loan if he won't get enough playing time, or don't loan him out at all and let him learn from Silva, cause he'll be one of the best in a few years time. He could well play libero behind Bartra.
I could just imagine the Masia team that they could play with in 3 years time, with a perfect rotation.
Starting Lineup Next Season
Would like to see this starting lineup often next season (again, with a good rotation).
With these subs: Pinto, Muniesa, Bartra, Puyol, Alves, Adriano, Song, Roberto, Xavi, Pedro, Deulofeu, Alexis/Villa.
Dat attack(ing speed), dat midfield, dat defence :emotions16:, dat depth, …
Sell Mascherano (to Napoli), Affelay, Cesc (to Manchester United, if only to give Thiago - he'll stay - his number 4 back and playing time for Roberto) and Villa (or Alexis).
Sell Dos Santos, Fontas (done) and Bojan with buy-back clauses.
Loan out Cuenca, Rafinha, and if necessary Deulofeu.
Buy Neymar (done), and Thiago Silva (the defenders - especially the young ones - need a person they can learn from, with Puyol being injured).
And finally stop playing Adriano or Song at CB, ever!!!
Tito gets a lot of slack (partly deserved), but if he pulls the strings right next season and doesn't listen to Roura's advices, we should be set for a treble + Super Cup.
Sorry for the long article, but as a defender and a long time Barcelona fan, I always suffer to see them mess up at the back while there are many ways to avoid it.
DonAndres
Wild Man of Borneo
Barcelona should play with a commanding libero (last man) that is perfect position-wise and communicates with the other 4 defenders: a CB and the fullbacks in one line in front of him, with the DM a bit further up working as a hybrid CB/DM (which is already the case for Barcelona).
It's so amazingly secure, cause if the attacker gets past the CB, the libero has a chance of defending him, while both CBs on one line allows the attacker to pass them by at once. It also really helps against counterattacking teams, cause the libero sees the whole pitch in front of him, which makes going past him a lot more difficult (and communication a lot easier).
It's all about tactics and leadership (the kind of leadership that Puyol/Silva/Muniesa types of defenders have)
e.g. 1. If the opposing CF sticks to the libero deep, he moves up on one line with the other 3, then tracks back to his position, leaving the CF on that line, where he eventually stays by the CB.
e.g. 2. If one of the FBs goes forward (they should interchange who goes), the libero takes his place, and they form a 3 man defence line.
It essentially gives the libero space to roam between the keeper and the other defenders to close/open up the field, confuse the opposition and play around with the offside trap.
The libero doesn't do as much physical work as the CB, who's always in contact with the attacker, but he needs to command them in every area of the game (and even shout at/motivate them at times), especially on corners, where he should stick between the keeper and the back post to guard it. It's perfect for "injury-prone"/old players, cause they don't TOO MUCH physical work all the time (more mental work, vision and extreme concentration).
Teams were scoring at will against my team until we used and perfected this defensive system, and it really worked well (when well executed). When we got the hang of it, we went 5-6 straight games without conceding one goal, throughout the season.
BTW: I was really disappointed with Xavi when he got so discouraged after going down 2 or 3-0 against Bayern. I guess he's not used to losing (so badly), but that's when the team needs their captain the most (he's arguably the coach on the pitch). That's why Puyol is such a great one. He never loses hope and always keep on motivating the team (getting rid of any kind of complacency along with it), and constantly talks to them.
That's why Muniesa must get a new contract and go on loan if he won't get enough playing time, or don't loan him out at all and let him learn from Silva, cause he'll be one of the best in a few years time. He could well play libero behind Bartra.
I could just imagine the Masia team that they could play with in 3 years time, with a perfect rotation.
Starting Lineup Next Season
Would like to see this starting lineup often next season (again, with a good rotation).
With these subs: Pinto, Muniesa, Bartra, Puyol, Alves, Adriano, Song, Roberto, Xavi, Pedro, Deulofeu, Alexis/Villa.
Dat attack(ing speed), dat midfield, dat defence :emotions16:, dat depth, …
Sell Mascherano (to Napoli), Affelay, Cesc (to Manchester United, if only to give Thiago - he'll stay - his number 4 back and playing time for Roberto) and Villa (or Alexis).
Sell Dos Santos, Fontas (done) and Bojan with buy-back clauses.
Loan out Cuenca, Rafinha, and if necessary Deulofeu.
Buy Neymar (done), and Thiago Silva (the defenders - especially the young ones - need a person they can learn from, with Puyol being injured).
And finally stop playing Adriano or Song at CB, ever!!!
Tito gets a lot of slack (partly deserved), but if he pulls the strings right next season and doesn't listen to Roura's advices, we should be set for a treble + Super Cup.
Sorry for the long article, but as a defender and a long time Barcelona fan, I always suffer to see them mess up at the back while there are many ways to avoid it.
I've been preaching a permanent libero for ages, glad to see someone who's thought of it as well :beer2:
Organization at the back and cutting out longballs/throughballs makes the libero system effective even if we don't have the best of defenders.
BerkeleyBernie
Senior Member
Interesting analysis. The question is the cost/benefit of giving up the offside trap for the libero. With a slower back line (and out of position wingbacks), the libero formation could be the safer choice.
ebieymjunior
Senior Member
Yeah, "fringe" defenders like Mascherano don't get caught on the counter
, but I really hope Muniesa stays, cause he has the reflex to anticipate attackers running towards him.The libero should be able to chose in which situations they use the offside trap (obviously during free-kicks; clever, tactical defender needed), in which case he moves forward, but it's always safer to position himself deeper, cause then he has a perfect view of the whole field.
te amo barca
Blaugrana al vent
Ahh somebody should phone Tito and tell him that we have to play with libero 
Nowadays libero's position is dead, but if Tito uses it and benefits, he automatically will become the second Pep
Nowadays libero's position is dead, but if Tito uses it and benefits, he automatically will become the second Pep
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Zuess99
New member
Ladies and gentleman after the game against spain vs brazil. I've finally concluded that we need to change tactics. The era of using one tactic is over , teams have figured us out . I just hope tito is creative enough to find another solution. Otherwise we are not going to get anywhere.
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