Frenkie de Jong

[Obiaseti]

He looks very promising and can probably be converted into any midfield position. He needs to play under a good coach for the next 3 or 4 years which will be crucial for him. EV is definitely not the right coach for this. I'd honestly rather he wait a year longer if that's what it takes for us to get a new coach before making the jump.

 

[Messigician]

He is huge. Would be foolish to waste him in the Modric role.

Play him in the Beckenbauer role, Box to Box or CDM. We need to take advantage of his physicality to aid the team.

 

[Jombi]

While I feel you have exaggerated a bit in the next paragraphs I've to agree with that, FDJ seem like a DM who will fit perfectly if there is another guy ready to cover for him, which makes our game play more of a hybrid between 433 and 4213 and Arthur seem like a good fit for that role.
I've few concerns
1-Are we going to be able to develop both players at same time? I don't remember us developing two young players in same line at same time. This is a real concern for me and starting to feel that should pass on FDJ b/c of Arthur.
2-His rumored price tag, although unlike De Ligt I think FDJ might be available at reasonable price.
3-How they are going to handle defensive duties. Both looks decent defensively but we need more than that, they have the tools but defense in a lot of cases need more than that.

Its not about "developing" anything. They are not youth players given minutes as charity. Its about playing players who are already very good. Busi will still be around anyway. Whats your solution? Players with Busi's composure and intelligence are not readily available.

 

[Raketa10]

We simply can't miss on him. De Jong and De Ligt should be out TOP PRIORITIES next summer. That being said we should also make up our mind if Miranda is a solution for a LB position or not. If not than we should buy LB this winter.

 

[Barcaman]

Think we would need to sell Rakitic first. Or more accurately, convince him to move as he looks really comfortable in Barcelona and has that Spanish wife who is very tied to life there.

 

[BBZ8800]

Busquets is only 30.
And he is a club's legend and one of the icons.
He will surely stay and play at least this season and 2 more seasons.
He will surely be a starter at least till 2020', right?

Now, Busquets is a defensive minded midfielder who plays deep.
Arthur, who seems to be on the verge of being a starter currently is quite similar to Busquets.
And it is already quite questionable how will Busi-Arthur play against smaller La liga teams against parked buses.

Now, SHORT TERM, I guess that a board is cautious about Frenkie because of:
1. his price tag
2. and where will he play short term, like in the next 3 years.
And again, even though fans on this forum look at signings like: a player xx could be good for 5-10 years, even though not in the next 2-3 years. But the board doesn't look at signings that way. If we need to wait 3 years for a player to start to perform well, that is a problem.
About Frenkie, I am not saying that he wouldn't perform well, but that he wouldn't have a place in a current team.
OR, Busquets or Arthur would need to get benched.

Some will reply: but we could play Busquets-Arthur-De Jong.
Well, that would probably be the most defensive minded trio in our history.
I know, I know, a player can improve, learn, adapt and De Jong is an allrounder, but still, he lacks killer instincts of a true CAM or attacking minded Cms like Iniesta, Coutinho, or even Rafinha.

ONLY if we could get rid of Busquets, THEN Arthur, De Jong and someone else could play here.
But, we can't get rid of 30 years old Buquets, club's icon yet.

Someone will probably reply: But Pep benched Yaya for young Busquets, we could do the same now.
Well, Yaya was in the club for only 1 year before Pep and he wasn't setting the world on fire either.
So, it was way easier to bench him for young Busquets.
On the other hand, a current Busquets has an insane wages, he is a club's legend and ONLY 30.

So, in short, he will play probably at least 3 more years.
In the best case scenario, that would mean 50:50 playing time for Frenkie and Arthur.

Also, that would mean that we would need to sell Rakitic right away, whom ALL Barca's and NT coaches adore for this or that reason.
So, that also probably won't happen.

Further, if you guys want your other idol, Dembele, to play, then Coutinho needs to play as a CM.
That again means: Busquets, Coutinho, Rakitic, Arthur, Frenkie, Alena (lol, where to fit him, lol?), I won't even mention anymore Vidal, Rafinha, Denis, Samper, Gomes for only 3 midfield spots.
Oh, does some of you still remember Puig and a future pivot Oriol Busquets?

I know, you guys would sell Rakitic, Vidal, Rafinha, Denis, Gomes, Samper.
But even then you would have:
Pivot Busquets
Defensive minded controller Arthur
De Jong who plays either at Busi's or Arthur's position
Coutinho, an attacking minded mid
Alena, an attacking minded mid

Puig, what to do with him?
Oriol, who plays at a similar position of Busquets, Arthur, Frenkie.

In short:
If you buy Frenkie, we need to sell: Rakitic, Vidal, Rafinha, Gomes, Denis, Samper.
Also, then Dembele could be benched easily.
Malcom won't get any playing time, with or without EV.
Puig won't play ever.
Alena will hardly play.
Oriol SURELY won't play.

Some of you will again reply: rotations, blah blah.
No matter how much do you rotate, you can't get enough of playing time for all kids: Dembele (he depends on Coutinho and Alena a lot. If Dembele plays=less midfield positions are free. If Coutinho plays as a LW, Dembele can't play but Alena can play. If Coutinho plays as a LCM, Dembele can play, Alena can't play), Alena, Frenkie, Arthur, Puig, Oriol.

 

[soul24rage]

Busquets is only 30.
And he is a club's legend and one of the icons.
He will surely stay and play at least this season and 2 more seasons.
He will surely be a starter at least till 2020', right?

Now, Busquets is a defensive minded midfielder who plays deep.
Arthur, who seems to be on the verge of being a starter currently is quite similar to Busquets.
And it is already quite questionable how will Busi-Arthur play against smaller La liga teams against parked buses.

Now, SHORT TERM, I guess that a board is cautious about Frenkie because of:
1. his price tag
2. and where will he play short term, like in the next 3 years.
And again, even though fans on this forum look at signings like: a player xx could be good for 5-10 years, even though not in the next 2-3 years. But the board doesn't look at signings that way. If we need to wait 3 years for a player to start to perform well, that is a problem.
About Frenkie, I am not saying that he wouldn't perform well, but that he wouldn't have a place in a current team.
OR, Busquets or Arthur would need to get benched.

Some will reply: but we could play Busquets-Arthur-De Jong.
Well, that would probably be the most defensive minded trio in our history.
I know, I know, a player can improve, learn, adapt and De Jong is an allrounder, but still, he lacks killer instincts of a true CAM or attacking minded Cms like Iniesta, Coutinho, or even Rafinha.

ONLY if we could get rid of Busquets, THEN Arthur, De Jong and someone else could play here.
But, we can't get rid of 30 years old Buquets, club's icon yet.

Someone will probably reply: But Pep benched Yaya for young Busquets, we could do the same now.
Well, Yaya was in the club for only 1 year before Pep and he wasn't setting the world on fire either.
So, it was way easier to bench him for young Busquets.
On the other hand, a current Busquets has an insane wages, he is a club's legend and ONLY 30.

So, in short, he will play probably at least 3 more years.
In the best case scenario, that would mean 50:50 playing time for Frenkie and Arthur.

Also, that would mean that we would need to sell Rakitic right away, whom ALL Barca's and NT coaches adore for this or that reason.
So, that also probably won't happen.

Further, if you guys want your other idol, Dembele, to play, then Coutinho needs to play as a CM.
That again means: Busquets, Coutinho, Rakitic, Arthur, Frenkie, Alena (lol, where to fit him, lol?), I won't even mention anymore Vidal, Rafinha, Denis, Samper, Gomes for only 3 midfield spots.
Oh, does some of you still remember Puig and a future pivot Oriol Busquets?

I know, you guys would sell Rakitic, Vidal, Rafinha, Denis, Gomes, Samper.
But even then you would have:
Pivot Busquets
Defensive minded controller Arthur
De Jong who plays either at Busi's or Arthur's position
Coutinho, an attacking minded mid
Alena, an attacking minded mid

Puig, what to do with him?
Oriol, who plays at a similar position of Busquets, Arthur, Frenkie.

In short:
If you buy Frenkie, we need to sell: Rakitic, Vidal, Rafinha, Gomes, Denis, Samper.
Also, then Dembele could be benched easily.
Malcom won't get any playing time, with or without EV.
Puig won't play ever.
Alena will hardly play.
Oriol SURELY won't play.

Some of you will again reply: rotations, blah blah.
No matter how much do you rotate, you can't get enough of playing time for all kids: Dembele (he depends on Coutinho and Alena a lot. If Dembele plays=less midfield positions are free. If Coutinho plays as a LW, Dembele can't play but Alena can play. If Coutinho plays as a LCM, Dembele can play, Alena can't play), Alena, Frenkie, Arthur, Puig, Oriol.

You made some good points, especially on the part of short term which is why I think we'll prioritize De ligt more than De Jong. The only way I see we're going to get De Jong will be to sell either Rakitic or Vidal first (Most likely will be Rakitic).

Also the point about a mid trio of Busi, De Jong and Arthur being the most defensive mid trio. I'd say the mid trio of Busi, Rakitic and Arthur is the most defensive mid trio I'd seen in Barca for a long time. However, that mid trio and a foward trio of Cou, Suarez and Messi produced the best away CL performance in a long time (although it's against a injury-ridden side) so I don't think being that defensive by having control of the possession rather than sitting back, which we are not good at, is a bad thing in CL knockout games. Plus With De Jong, he might not have the killer instinct of a CAM say Iniesta (he is an all time great so unfair to compare between the two), but De Jong makes a lot of forward runs with the ball with great control, most often than not tries to pass that will break the line and can link up great with 1-2 passes. I think De jong offers more offensively than Rakitic.

And the problem of having a lot of players in the midfield, I'd prefer that problem than having no quality at all on the bench like last season.

If we sell either Rakitic/Vidal and get De Jong, we'll have a midfield of next season: (sell Denis, Gomes, Rafinha, Samper)
Busi, Arthur, Rakitic/Vidal, De Jong, Alena
Foward line would be: Coutinho, Suarez, Messi, Dembele, Malcom, Munir/or whoever.
Or we can loan Alena out next season and keep Rakitic and Vidal for one more season for the 19/20. Because of their age and not to burn out for CL, we should rotate them a bit more frequently.
For Puig, we'll see how he does for Barca B at the end of the season, although I'm optimistic he'll be great for our 1st team soon.

 

[Raketa10]

Think we would need to sell Rakitic first. Or more accurately, convince him to move as he looks really comfortable in Barcelona and has that Spanish wife who is very tied to life there.

IMHO Rakitic should be sold next summer. He will be 31 and it will be the last chance to get some money for him. He was great last season but I doubt he will be able to keep that level much longer. Regarding Vidal I honestly don't see him staying here for more than a year. It's the right time to start refreshing our midfield and Frenkie is the perfect candidate.

Busquets is only 30.
In short:
If you buy Frenkie, we need to sell: Rakitic, Vidal, Rafinha, Gomes, Denis, Samper.

Rafinha, Gomes, Denis and Samper need to be sold in any case so I really don't see any problem here. They are just an expense for the club, they don't contribute at all. Saying that we won't buy a world class talent because we have similar players we don't need is like saying PSG shouldn't have bought Mbappe since they had Di Maria. If we want to be the best club in the world we need to have world class players and world class talents and not mediocre players whose only purpose is to sit on the stands. Those four are not good enough for Barca and they shouldn't even be considered as a part of the team for next season.

 

[Jombi]

We need to start phasing out players when they are closer to 31 than 34. Busi unquestionable starter for the next three years no matter how badly he declines? Suarez 2021? Pique a starter for the next few years? Players playing because of name and past achievements?

This type of mentality will be our downfall. We already played Iniesta and Xavi too long IMO. I dont see De Jong as a particularly defensive player anyway. He has the intelligence we see from players like Iniesta, so he is capable of playing numerous positions as a result.

Keeping players like Busi and Raki is fine as players like De Jong can be phased in. Initially being squad players before hopefully taking over. Its incredibly difficult to find the right replacement for a player like Busi so both De Jong and Arthur should be considered for that role IMO.

 

[El Flaco]

 

[khaled_a_d]

Its not about "developing" anything. They are not youth players given minutes as charity. Its about playing players who are already very good. Busi will still be around anyway. Whats your solution? Players with Busi's composure and intelligence are not readily available.

They are young players who aren't ready to carry the midfield, there is a plenty of development and growing pains out there and again it is almost unprecedented situation that we have two young players (22&23) who are taking their first year/years into Barca football and both succeeding, I didn't say it is impossible to happen but it is legit concern

I said in De Ligt thread that Busquets being around will help FDJ transition, though it id a double edged sword

And we don't have to replace Busquets for a player with same composure, I actually won't mind a true spoiler in the mold of Kante/Casemiro/ or younger Mascherano

 

[Raketa10]

So what if Busi will be here for another 3 years? First of all FDJ is not a copy of Busi, he is much more versatile and secondly not having a proper Busi backup is major problem for us for some time now. As I already said, I hope we won't consider Samper, Rafinha, Denis or Gomes as part of our squad for the next season. Our midfield is basically Raki, Busi, Vidal, Arthur and Coutinho. I also honestly hope Alena will get his chance but he is currently playing for B team. Out of those 5 midfielders we have 3 players over 30 and one player who is more AM/LW than CM player so I really see no problem for De Jong getting his minutes. Of course I am saying that under assumption that Valverde wont be here next year.

We need to start phasing out players when they are closer to 31 than 34. Busi unquestionable starter for the next three years no matter how badly he declines? Suarez 2021? Pique a starter for the next few years? Players playing because of name and past achievements?

This type of mentality will be our downfall. We already played Iniesta and Xavi too long IMO. I dont see De Jong as a particularly defensive player anyway. He has the intelligence we see from players like Iniesta, so he is capable of playing numerous positions as a result.

Keeping players like Busi and Raki is fine as players like De Jong can be phased in. Initially being squad players before hopefully taking over. Its incredibly difficult to find the right replacement for a player like Busi so both De Jong and Arthur should be considered for that role IMO.

100% true!

 

[Jombi]

They are young players who aren't ready to carry the midfield, there is a plenty of development and growing pains out there and again it is almost unprecedented situation that we have two young players (22&23) who are taking their first year/years into Barca football and both succeeding, I didn't say it is impossible to happen but it is legit concern

I said in De Ligt thread that Busquets being around will help FDJ transition, though it id a double edged sword

And we don't have to replace Busquets for a player with same composure, I actually won't mind a true spoiler in the mold of Kante/Casemiro/ or younger Mascherano

There is an adaptation period. Thats true of any player regardless of age. Its not about "developing" anything. They will play because they are good now. Not because they could become good in four years. If you're good enough, you are old enough. Arthur will have had a year to adapt. Umtiti didnt need a year to adapt. If you think they can not start in any game they are called upon to do (which every squad player should be able to), then that means they are not good enough for us. Then what is your solution?

 

[khaled_a_d]

There is an adaptation period. Thats true of any player regardless of age. Its not about "developing" anything. They will play because they are good now. Not because they could become good in four years. If you're good enough, you are old enough. Arthur will have had a year to adapt. Umtiti didnt need a year to adapt. If you think they can not start in any game they are called upon to do (which every squad player should be able to), then that means they are not good enough for us. Then what is your solution?

It doesn't work this way, player's age and experience plays a role no matter how good they are, and when they are playing with couple of other young players there are more issues and it can be difficult for everyone to reach his potential.

If they aren't good enough what is the solution? It is the sporting department job not mine, what is your solution then?

 

[Jombi]

It doesn't work this way, player's age and experience plays a role no matter how good they are, and when they are playing with couple of other young players there are more issues and it can be difficult for everyone to reach his potential.

If they aren't good enough what is the solution? It is the sporting department job not mine, what is your solution then?

Of course it works that way. If the player is actually really good and has the right mentality, they will find it easy to adapt to the team. Just like with Umtiti for example who did not need the four years of "developing" like some people claim is needed. Its not like our team consists of 11 players who are 20 years old. We have a large number of aging stars who offer a lot of experience. We dont need more 30 year olds now. We have plenty of that.

You are the one who are so concerned but do not offer any alternative solutions. If you cant think of anything better, what you criticize is probably not such a bad idea as you think it is.