Frenkie de Jong

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BerkeleyBernie

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Flow and vision are made possible by pre-scanning to know what your teammates are doing. Xavi was the master but that whole La Masia midfield and front line were skilled at it (Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Messi, Pedro).

Frenkie is utterly lacking in that skill at the present time. He decides what to do with the ball only after he has received it. Has no awareness of what's behind his back. Dribbles with his head down when tightly marked, focused on beating his marker and defending the ball rather than seeking an outlet. No chameleon eyes whatsoever. He's much more of a holding defensive midfielder. Much better at centerback where his lack of vision isn't a liability to a team lacking creativity.

Doesn't mean he's a bad player, just a limited one who I personally find boring (flow-killing). He's not what Barca needs if we want to have an entertaining creative attack again.

While Barca was able to easily control the game yesterday, so many opportunities went missing because of lack of awareness of what teammates are doing. For instance, one break where Pedri was wide open in the middle of the pitch yet the ball was forced down the congested right side.

This is why Puig is such a breath of fresh air on this team. He *does* scan and generally knows his options before receiving the ball, one of the few in the current squad. This is a skill one has to want to learn and practice. Thiago saw the masters doing it so he practiced it, too. I'm pretty sure Puig would say he was inspired by the La Masia greats as well.


Frenkie have to make a step in order to be worldclass. I?ve known him since Ajax youth because I?m Dutch. If I compare him to let?s say Modric then the difference is there. The Croatian has 5/6 options in his head to make the forward plays and chooses the best. Frenkie is limited in his solutions to do the same and if the 1 in head isn?t there to give he had to play back or to the side. His out of the box thinking is not good enough to constantly play forward balls in tight situations. The other thing what I don?t like is his rhythm. He needs to feel the flow of attacks in order to keep the danger there. He takes too much time when a fast play is necessary because otherwise the defenders are positioned again. That split second vision to dictate tempo and smell chances is weak. He takes 2/3 touches when not necessary. So many times he takes the tempo out of attacks and also does it with the National team. Can he learn those things or is that straight instinct which you?re born with? Time will tell. Hope he succeeds as my fellow countrymen
 

te amo barca

Blaugrana al vent
He's much more of a holding defensive midfielder. Much better at centerback where his lack of vision isn't a liability to a team lacking creativity.

What do you mean? Holding midfielder is the single position where having "chameleon eyes," i.e. spatial awareness is an absolute must. A holding midfielder should always know what is happening on the pitch as he is frequently receiving the ball with his back toward goal. That is the biggest reason Frenkie can't play lone pivot as he does not possess that skill. This is why he is much better at CB than CDM as well.
 

BerkeleyBernie

Senior Member
What do you mean? Holding midfielder is the single position where having "chameleon eyes," i.e. spatial awareness is an absolute must. A holding midfielder should always know what is happening on the pitch as he is frequently receiving the ball with his back toward goal. That is the biggest reason Frenkie can't play lone pivot as he does not possess that skill. This is why he is much better at CB than CDM as well.

Okay. Defensive midfielder. There is no fixed definition of "holding midfielder" though the consensus is that a majority of their duties are defensive. I considered Keita's role in Pep's Barca as a "holding midfielder." He was brought on to defend the lead and slow the game down. I consider Busquets much more than a holding midfielder.

I agree De Jong isn't that good with his back to goal. I recall one pass yesterday where he was picked off because he was totally unaware of a player rushing him from the back and had made no movement towards receiving the ball.

https://www.quora.com/What-does-the-term-holding-mean-in-soccer-i-e-holding-midfielder
 

BerkeleyBernie

Senior Member
Wouldn't be a BerkeleyBernie post if Pedro wasn't slotted in with the likes of Messi, Xavi, Iniesta :lol:

:lol: "that whole La Masia midfield and front line were skilled at it (Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Messi, Pedro)." Yes, Pedro was very good at team awareness, connective play, one-touch passing. My point was there wasn't a weakness in that lineup where the flow would fall apart, not that Pedro had the same brilliance or creativity as those others. He was trained in and proficient at scanning.

I'm always puzzled that scanning is not a more common proficiency among players. It's not hard to learn, just requires practice and a lot of concentration. Defenders would benefit greatly, too. When you hear a defense being accused of "ball-watching," it's their lack of scanning and having no idea of opposition players coming in behind them. So why isn't scanning trained as much as other essential skills (outside of La Masia)?
 
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Bobo32

Senior Member
:lol: "that whole La Masia midfield and front line were skilled at it (Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Messi, Pedro)." Yes, Pedro was very good at team awareness, connective play, one-touch passing. The point is there wasn't a weakness in that lineup where the flow would fall apart, not that Pedro had the same brilliance or creativity as those others. He was trained in and proficient at scanning.

I'm always puzzled that scanning is not a more common proficient skill among players. It's not hard to learn, just requires practice and a lot of concentration. Defenders would benefit greatly, too. When you hear a defense being accused of "ball-watching," it's their lack of scanning and having no idea of opposition players coming in behind them. So why isn't scanning trained as much as other essential skills (outside of La Masia)?

I think some of it can be explained with part of what I discussed with Dammie10 just before ITT, in regards to Frenkie - the best youth players easily get lazy. They can solve situations with another touch, or with their physique, and few coaches will tell them that they did wrong. Pep has seen this in players like Kimmich and Foden, and is one who will tell the player - this is important both mentally but also tactically/habit shapingly.

Scanning, and spatial awareness is a skill that, together with tempo, is changing the most between tiers of players, still those who have the greatest talent don't need to focus on it as much, especially if they didn't get promoted to play with adults while still physically very inferior.

I think that Barcelona would be in a better place right now if they kept Pedro and never signed Neymar, Dembele, Griezmann or Coutinho by the way.
 

BerkeleyBernie

Senior Member
:lol: "that whole La Masia midfield and front line were skilled at it (Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Messi, Pedro)." Yes, Pedro was very good at team awareness, connective play, one-touch passing. My point was there wasn't a weakness in that lineup where the flow would fall apart, not that Pedro had the same brilliance or creativity as those others. He was trained in and proficient at scanning.

I'm always puzzled that scanning is not a more common proficiency among players. It's not hard to learn, just requires practice and a lot of concentration. Defenders would benefit greatly, too. When you hear a defense being accused of "ball-watching," it's their lack of scanning and having no idea of opposition players coming in behind them. So why isn't scanning trained as much as other essential skills (outside of La Masia)?

Here's a perfect example, Pedro's wonderful back-to-goal assist from today's Roma game (about 20 seconds into video). Watch how he scans over his back before receiving the ball which enables him to make a 1-touch flick for Mayoral to score. He knew where his markers were and where his teammate was.

 
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xXKonan

Senior Member
Funny enough Pedro was getting slaughtered by Roma fans today for being a headless chicken with his decision-making and missed chances.

I was following the game to see how Bryan Reynolds was doing as he started and Pedro and Carles Perez were just getting shit on.
 

Rory

Senior Member
Bit of a late observation but I saw a bit of aggression in his game and battle that I haven't seen in him this season. Usually he spends a fair amount of time whining to the ref a bit like Alba. But he decided to get angry and take matters into his own hands resulting in his best performance all year. Needs to channel his anger better. With his naturally cool head on the ball he could turn into the player we thought we bought
 
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