Frenkie de Jong

[MTL_Barca]

We better never sign a player again, that way nobody can fail.

 

[vlad]

Why would manager be deciding factor when they change clubs every 3, 4 seasons, and this is now guardiola's 3rd season at city, so de jong will have with him him 1 season, 2 at best, so that will not be deciding factor, more like money and most sunny days in a year.

 

[Andresito]

Hmmm, this is wrong actually, and except Ibra non has shown that pre-barca.
And I am don't know how you can be sure about FDJ not being same type of guy. You are talking like you know him in person.

Hleb - Admitted a few years ago that him failing at Barca was his own fault. Didn't listen to Pep and didn't want to take Spanish lessons because he felt Pep was the root of his problems.

Zlatan - Cockiest of them all. He was the last person I wanted us to sign because of his bad attitude. "Failed" because Messi took his position, and rightfully so. We didn't really need him in the end. Pep's failure rather than Zlatan's.

Cesc - The guy who dominated during the first half of the season and disappeared during the second. I don't have the answer to why, but I i bet it wasn't because of his fitness.

Arda - Reached the absolute top tier of football when he arrived at Barca. He didn't have to work hard anymore, he was already at the top. His whole stint at Barca was like a vacation for lazy ass.

Gomes - Took a lot of crap from the media and fans, sure. But he simply wasn't good enough. This guy would've failed even if he'd have the heart of Puyol.

Dembélé - Got the dream move with expectations of the same role and responsibilities Neymar had. Talented as fuck but still has to improve A LOT, which he seemingly doesn't care about. Needs to overcome his ego.


I don't know Frenkie in person. He's talented on the pitch and humble and responsible off it. He has good and stable surroundings in terms of friends and family.
He's not comparable to anyone above in terms of this, maybe Cesc is the closest one, if you consider talent as well.
Difference is Cesc came as a fulfiller of the prophecy of the lost Barca child and the heir to Xavi. Maybe it was too much for him.


This is just me trying to speculate and draw conclusions from my own views. Can't do a lot more.

 

[khaled_a_d]

This is just me trying to speculate and draw conclusions from my own views. Can't do a lot more.

I respect your opinion, but I don't think you are presenting a strong argument here.
Assuming everything you are saying is true, how many of those things was apparent before signing? Almost non of them, except for Ibra whom despite being cookie never had a problem with coaches.

One of examples in Cesc doesn't fit the argument, Cesc was teammate of half of Barca squad, non of them had doubts about his success. Assuming it was mental problem then no one has foreseen it of all those guys. To say that we can even have a slightest speculation about a guy like FDJ can handle the mental pressure here, when he isn't even La Masia graduate, isn't friend of half of squad including being Messi bff etc. I don't know man but this isn't accurate at all
And I don't think most of those failed because mental problem, Cesc failed because he was bad fit, the X and O's of his game didn't match the team at all, he was never the Xavi heir we believed he is, and his stamina was a problem too which all lead to always disappointing 2nd half of the season.

Ibra was always able to handle pressure, just like Eto, but unlike Eto he is atrocious fit to Pep's game and when Messi moved permanently to false 9 it was over for Ibra, you can't put a player who is almost 2 meters as RW.
Agree with Gomes and Hleb, think Arda gave a shit a bit early on before it was clear he was never going to make it here because he was never a midfielder


The point is, there is no safe bet with those players, and with us this limit what we can spend
Not only for financial reasons, but because in Barca the higher the price of the player, the less the patience and more of pressure, there is simply extra additional factors that would drag players down. Their is more or less a toxic environment from the media and social media.
Again, this isn't against signing FDJ, but it is against going on auction against City trying to get him at any price

 

[Andresito]

To say that we can even have a slightest speculation about a guy like FDJ can handle the mental pressure here, when he isn't even La Masia graduate, isn't friend of half of squad including being Messi bff etc.

The point is, there is no safe bet with those players, and with us this limit what we can spend

Frenkie seemingly has all the right tools outside the pitch, combined with the talent, to become a WC player.
But I agree. There are no guarantees in football and there should be a limit on how much we should spend on a non-guaranteed starter.

Plus, the midfield position isn't in crisis at the moment. At least not a crisis that Frenkie would directly solve.
Frenkie is leaving this summer and it's now or never if we want him since he won't be moving to a second tier club.

 

[DonAK]

There's no guarantees anywhere.

But I can guarantee one thing. If Barca keep going for half measures in the transfer market instead of paying a bit more, even if it's over the top for true quality that stands out then we'll keep shooting ourselves in the foot. That's why we miss out on some top talent and end up overpaying for others later. Some opportunities only come once. Later you might rue your luck or have to overpay 3x.

People worry about paying 20m extra, but don't realize being cheap that way ends up costing the club a couple of years down the road in the end.

So you can pay 35m for Pavard who's struggled immensely this season or pay 60m for de Ligt who stands out every way as a CB and a leader.

I see this with the NFL team I support too. The Green Bay Packers. Ruined their chance having a once in a lifetime talent and two HOF QBs back to back by going for half measures.

You're either all in or you're not. You cannot be in between and expect to excel the way you hope or expect.

It's not the end of the World if Barca don't end up signing Frenkie de Jong, but if he truly is the special talent a lot of people are touting him to be, and I believe he's special having watched Ajax several times this season, then going for half measures such as Rabiot just because he's cheaper will prove to be the wrong decision in the end.

Same with signing a #9. More so there. I see people talking about a lot of U23 players. We don't need that, we don't have the capacity to develop an entire team. We need to mix it up. We need someone in his prime ready to score 30+ goals right away.

Not unless he's a special talent like Mbappe is proving himself to be, someone who at that tender age can already score like a vet.

 

[Magyarkhan]

I don't know Frenkie in person. He's talented on the pitch and humble and responsible off it. He has good and stable surroundings in terms of friends and family.
He's not comparable to anyone above in terms of this, maybe Cesc is the closest one, if you consider talent as well.
Difference is Cesc came as a fulfiller of the prophecy of the lost Barca child and the heir to Xavi. Maybe it was too much for him.


This is just me trying to speculate and draw conclusions from my own views. Can't do a lot more.

I am from Holland, I can safely say that Frenkie is a very nice humble hard working guy, no nonsense.... although special it all gets hyped a lot. Esp the transfer fees involved. It looks like a rich mans game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4WSCxK_1pY

In this video he explains why Messi is -much- better than Ronaldo and why he prefers Barca over Madrid.

 

[serghei]

There's no guarantees anywhere.

But I can guarantee one thing. If Barca keep going for half measures in the transfer market instead of paying a bit more, even if it's over the top for true quality that stands out then we'll keep shooting ourselves in the foot. That's why we miss out on some top talent and end up overpaying for others later. Some opportunities only come once. Later you might rue your luck or have to overpay 3x.

People worry about paying 20m extra, but don't realize being cheap that way ends up costing the club a couple of years down the road in the end.

So you can pay 35m for Pavard who's struggled immensely this season or pay 60m for de Ligt who stands out every way as a CB and a leader.

I see this with the NFL team I support too. The Green Bay Packers. Ruined their chance having a once in a lifetime talent and two HOF QBs back to back by going for half measures.

You're either all in or you're not. You cannot be in between and expect to excel the way you hope or expect.

It's not the end of the World if Barca don't end up signing Frenkie de Jong, but if he truly is the special talent a lot of people are touting him to be, and I believe he's special having watched Ajax several times this season, then going for half measures such as Rabiot just because he's cheaper will prove to be the wrong decision in the end.

Same with signing a #9. More so there. I see people talking about a lot of U23 players. We don't need that, we don't have the capacity to develop an entire team. We need to mix it up. We need someone in his prime ready to score 30+ goals right away.

Not unless he's a special talent like Mbappe is proving himself to be, someone who at that tender age can already score like a vet.

Agree mostly.

With the no9, the best strikers in the world are 30 or slightly over. Kane is the only exception. Icardi is not the profile we need in my opinion. I don't think there are players on the market to directly replace veterans like Suarez/Messi with. So, signing a young player would be a good option, but here's the issue. You need much better managers than Valverde to develop such players. Someone like Valverde would have them rubbing the bench almost non-stop while overplaying the veterans, so basically the transition would never happen. Sort of what happened to Alcacer.

 

[BarçaBarça]

It is all rumours until he puts on another shirt. I will wait to judge our transfer-behaviour at least until he has made a move.

 

[khaled_a_d]

There's no guarantees anywhere.

But I can guarantee one thing. If Barca keep going for half measures in the transfer market instead of paying a bit more, even if it's over the top for true quality that stands out then we'll keep shooting ourselves in the foot. That's why we miss out on some top talent and end up overpaying for others later. Some opportunities only come once. Later you might rue your luck or have to overpay 3x.

People worry about paying 20m extra, but don't realize being cheap that way ends up costing the club a couple of years down the road in the end.

So you can pay 35m for Pavard who's struggled immensely this season or pay 60m for de Ligt who stands out every way as a CB and a leader.

I see this with the NFL team I support too. The Green Bay Packers. Ruined their chance having a once in a lifetime talent and two HOF QBs back to back by going for half measures.

You're either all in or you're not. You cannot be in between and expect to excel the way you hope or expect.

It's not the end of the World if Barca don't end up signing Frenkie de Jong, but if he truly is the special talent a lot of people are touting him to be, and I believe he's special having watched Ajax several times this season, then going for half measures such as Rabiot just because he's cheaper will prove to be the wrong decision in the end.

Same with signing a #9. More so there. I see people talking about a lot of U23 players. We don't need that, we don't have the capacity to develop an entire team. We need to mix it up. We need someone in his prime ready to score 30+ goals right away.

Not unless he's a special talent like Mbappe is proving himself to be, someone who at that tender age can already score like a vet.

It isn't about half measures, it is about spending your money in the right way every time.
There should always be deals that we break the bank for, and there always be deals where you have to put a cap for how much you are going to spend, and there will be cases where you just want to spend but simply someone richer than you can outbid you even if you don't like it.
You can't point to one strategy and say it is wrong, going it all for every player doesn't ensure success at all, but may even cripple you more in the future, being cheap could turn just a waste of money too and lower standards too

 

[serghei]

It isn't about half measures, it is about spending your money in the right way every time.
There should always be deals that we break the bank for, and there always be deals where you have to put a cap for how much you are going to spend, and there will be cases where you just want to spend but simply someone richer than you can outbid you even if you don't like it.
You can't point to one strategy and say it is wrong, going it all for every player doesn't ensure success at all, but may even cripple you more in the future, being cheap could turn just a waste of money too and lower standards too

I don't understand why are you trying to reduce every transfer down to money only. There are other things that matter too. De Jong will obviously have a say where he wants to play. If he wants to go to Barcelona, Barca will probably make Ajax a good enough offer and the transfer will happen. It's his future after all. He has to make the decision as much as the selling club. Clubs can agree, but if the player wants to sign for a certain team, things can get complicated, and it's no longer a money-only affair.

It's not like a player is a commodity that is transferred from seller to buyer without him having any decisional leeway. You make it sound as if the player is just shipped to the highest bidder every time and it's not true. Of course money matters a lot, but this is not an auction.

The main problem with De Jong, is that on top of money, City have a great football project led by the greatest manager in the game, and coupled with a consistent financial package (wage, bonuses etc.) this is a hard to beat proposition. Not sure our club's prestige can beat that. That's the real issue, not just money. On top of being able to pay players more than we can, they might very well be the best team style wise for De Jong to join, the best career choice outside of the money equation. In other words, City now have many things going for them, on top of money. Which you seem to undervalue.

PSG can pay even more than City for a player probably. De Jong won't sign for them just because of this.

 

[khaled_a_d]

I don't understand why are you trying to reduce every transfer down to money only. There are other things that matter too. De Jong will obviously have a say where he wants to play. If he wants to go to Barcelona, Barca will probably make Ajax a good enough offer and the transfer will happen.

It's not like a player is a commodity that is transferred from seller to buyer without him having any decisional leeway. You make it sound as if the player is just shipped to the highest bidder every time and it's not true. Of course money matters a lot, but this is not an auction.

I explained this a lot, and already said in a case like this I think you are a bit naive.
And again, already explained that even if what you say is true, it doesn't change anything in the discussion. So I am actually not very sure why you keep bringing this

 

[serghei]

I explained this a lot, and already said in a case like this I think you are a bit naive.
And again, already explained that even if what you say is true, it doesn't change anything in the discussion. So I am actually not very sure why you keep bringing this

I'm not naive. I just said there are cases and cases. Coutinho for example wouldn't have signed for PSG even if they made a bigger offer to Liverpool. It's cinical and not true to basically say every player only cares about money in the game.

Most do, some don't. Don't see how you could argue against that.

 

[khaled_a_d]

I'm not naive. I just said there are cases and cases. Coutinho for example wouldn't have signed for PSG even if they made a bigger offer to Liverpool. It's cinical and not true to basically say every player only cares about money in the game.

Most do, some don't. Don't see how you could argue against that.

Don't want to be repetitive so will quote my own post

But let's assume you are right and I am wrong, it isn't about money.
If he stupid enough to trap the rest of his career for 2 years of Pep, what can we do then? You know even if we sacked EV we won't get a coach as attractive as Pep. Right now no coach is as attractive as Pep anyway
why the hate for Rabiot then if he is ready to play for us anyway and we won't pay transfer fee on it?

More importantly, what is this discussion about? club tried to get and he prefers somewhere else. move on and stop hating on board for this deal.
IF FDJ decided he wants to join us and pushed for it in a Dembele way and we can get him for 50M or under (which is still a lot btw) then I am all for it.
But if we find City has offered 70+ then this is a whole other discussion in a club with limited resource, with multi needs, with a player of same age and close profile in Arthur,with best upcoming La Masia kids all being midfielders, should we go for auction for FDJ against City? And people are mad we are considering an alternatives like Rabiot and Ndombele?

And there is a difference between an established star pushing where he wants to go, and a player getting his 1st big check with management like Ajax, they aren't really comparable but whatever

 

[tacticvarium]

Apart from FdJ, I wonder why we even need Rabiot after all.
What can he offer and add to the existing squad?
It seems the main reason why the club prefers Rabiot is only due to his price.
He is more likely to be one of those players who block youngsters' development and end up leaving after just 1~3 seasons.
We don't even need another midfielder at this moment unless Raki or Vidal leaves.