Ibrahima Konate

[Jair Ventura]

Yes, what is new? Your troll attempts are very poor. I have never questioned the quality of this current French generation of players. Nor is Konaté playing in your beloved Ligue 1. Actually he left for a better league to develop and it seems that decision was spot on given his growth as a player and interest from clubs like Napoli for him. What a shame that he is not rooting in Sochaux in the second division, no?

Just curious why you don't want more Spanish talents on your team.

 

[Leo_Messi]

Just curious why you don't want more Spanish talents on your team.

You know which players I want since when?

 

[Jair Ventura]

You know which players I want since when?

Since you're in multiple threads asking for French players.

 

[Leo_Messi]

Since you're in multiple threads asking for French players.

2 is multiple? Also what is the problem with thinking that Ndombélé and Konaté are exciting talents? Should I only want to see Spanish or Italian talents? Or talents with a certain skin color, height, hairstyle or weight? What is this shit? Very poor trolling once again but that is expected.

Anyway yes, I have spoken about 4-5 times the amount of Spanish players whenever I have spoken about a French talent. Happy now?

The same question can be asked to you. Why are you obsessed about French players as a Brazilian? Why are you not suggesting that QSG should buy many more Brazilian players?

 

[Joan]

2 is multiple? Also what is the problem with thinking that Ndombélé and Konaté are exciting talents? Should I only want to see Spanish or Italian talents? Or talents with a certain skin color, height, hairstyle or weight? What is this shit? Very poor trolling once again but that is expected.

Anyway yes, I have spoken about 4-5 times the amount of Spanish players whenever I have spoken about a French talent. Happy now?

But, but how come farmers league can produce talents??! So off the target.

 

[Jair Ventura]

2 is multiple? Also what is the problem with thinking that Ndombélé and Konaté are exciting talents? Should I only want to see Spanish or Italian talents? Or talents with a certain skin color, height, hairstyle or weight? What is this shit? Very poor trolling once again but that is expected.

Anyway yes, I have spoken about 4-5 times the amount of Spanish players whenever I have spoken about a French talent. Happy now?

The same question can be asked to you. Why are you obsessed about French players as a Brazilian? Why are you not suggesting that QSG should buy many more Brazilian players?

Yes, two is multiple.

 

[Leo_Messi]

Yes, two is multiple.

Yes, but you could not be more pedantic, could you? Multiple can be everything from 2 to 100. Showing interest in 2 players is nothing.

BTW, if I was pedantic I could claim that Konaté and Ndombélé are African, not French. Only born in France to non-French parents.

You did not answer my question. Why are you not proposing tons of Brazilian players to join QSG?

 

[Jair Ventura]

Yes, but you could not be more pedantic, could you? Multiple can be everything from 2 to 100. Showing interest in 2 players is nothing.

BTW, if I was pedantic I could claim that Konaté and Ndombélé are African, not French. Only born in France to non-French parents.

You did not answer my question. Why are you not proposing tons of Brazilian players to join QSG?

- You should be smart enough to recognize the difference between ethnicity and nationality.
- I do. I’m not the one bashing the footballing quality of countries of players I want playing for my club.

 

[Leo_Messi]

- You should be smart enough to recognize the difference between ethnicity and nationality.
- I do. I’m not the one bashing the footballing quality of countries of players I want playing for my club.

Thanks for stating the obvious. I did not know that.

More trolling?

Never bashed French players or promising French talents. Ligue 1 is a totally different discussion. How many times must I write one sensible argument after the other for you to realize this simple fact?

Similar to the quality of EPL in the past 15 years not equaling the quality of English domestic players or their national team. You continue with the delusions.

 

[Jair Ventura]

Thanks for stating the obvious. I did not know that.

No problem. I'm always up for educating.

More trolling?

Never bashed French players or promising French talents. Ligue 1 is a totally different discussion. How many times must I write one sensible argument after the other for you to realize this simple fact.

As far as I know Ligue 1 leans heavily on its domestic talent, which you've agreed is very good.

Similar to the quality of EPL in the past 15 years not equaling the quality of English domestic players or their national team. You continue with the delusions.

But the EPL doesn't rely on English talent, it relies on foreign talent & managers for its success. Entirely different dynamics.

 

[Leo_Messi]

No problem. I'm always up for educating.



As far as I know Ligue 1 leans heavily on its domestic talent, which you've agreed is very good.



But the EPL doesn't rely on English talent, it relies on foreign talent & managers for its success. Entirely different dynamics.

They are both African and French, so I was never wrong. If you asked them, I am sure that they would reply the same way.

Yet only a fraction of that domestic talent make it in elite clubs and good clubs. Even in France itself. Much of that talent is not domestic French talent but from the outside. For instance in Spain and Italy, the domestic talent is mostly fully indigenous. That is because of the history of France and their reliance on talents from former French colonies. Imagine if Spain could do the same with all of Latin America given that most locals there have a degree of Spanish ancestry from Mexico in the North (even certain US states such as California, Nevada, Texas, Arizona, Louisiana, Florida, New Mexico etc. - all former territories under the Spanish Empire and Crown) to Patagonia in the Chile and Argentina in the South next to Antarctica. For instance Messi could have played for either Spain or Italy. Maradona (a Galician surname) for either Spain, Paraguay or Croatia and so on.

Look at that France 1998 World Cup squad and see how many players were born abroad. They had the option of choosing their countries of birth and origin but decided to pick France. In Brazil alone there are some 15-20 million people of Spanish origins and even more of Italian origins. If Brazil was a poor national football team, Spain and Italy could be doing the same thing. Similar to Portugal. Even more so the latter. Why do you think it is so easy for Brazilian players to receive Portuguese, Spanish and Italian passports? Even the mixed players with partial African ancestry?

No difference. EPL has been full of English talent for the past 15 years. Not sure what the percentage of domestic players is but I assume that it is well above 50%. So your argument belongs in the dustbin.

So to make it simple for you.

1) A good domestic league does not equal a good national football team or great domestic talents.

2) Having many domestic talents and a good national football team does not necessarily mean that the domestic football league of country x or y is great.

Should not be that difficult to understand, I believe.

 

[Porque]

France has a lot of talent, no one with two eyes and a brain can deny that. But it does not make a strong league if there is mass exodus of them when they are leaving or before they leave their prime. Konate, for example of this thread, and Upamecano are both in Bundesliga. Brazil factory is even more impressive but you won't see anyone say Brasileiro is a top league globally. The exodus stops that from developing. Meanwhile don't usually get this with young Spanish and Italian players. There are exceptions like Cesc before, Fabian Ruiz now of course.

In regards to being a farmers league, of course it is not. No one here believes that, it is just a comeback banter with the OTT PSG posters. But today it is not on the level of LaLiga, EPL, Bundesliga or Italian. There is no consistent European success outside of PSG really. You may say that Marseille made the Europa League final last year, but that was Frances first appearance in that competition since 2004. During that time Spain has dominated the second tier competition with multiple clubs (Valencia, Sevilla, Atletico, Athletic, Espanyol).

The level of PSG is currently an anomaly no different to how Shakhtar Donetsk are in Ukraine with bigger backing or how Zenit St Petersburg were before FFP crushed the acquisition potential of the Russian league.

French league signed an incredible TV rights deal from, ironically, Barcelona's Spanish (OK Chinese funded now like PSG is Qatari funded) broadcaster Mediapro. This distributed equitably should guarantee more French talents stay in Ligue1 longer, with a knock-on being clubs able to demand higher transfer fee's for exiting talents to bigger leagues like Premier League and LaLiga. Lille demanding 70m for Pepe, Lyon putting the asking price for Ndombele at 70m are two examples. We will see how this develops, whether clubs will now fill their pockets with higher profits or look to re-invest in their internal quality and thus product.

But this is only domestic rights and the league has a long way to go to be marketable internationally. The language is a barrier, the visual product is lacking, the clubs outside of PSG lack international exposure and brand value. All these things are needed to expand the league financially for global sponsorship, right sales, growth and keeping talent internally while attracting marquee talent. PSG can't do it alone as the rest of Ligue1 haven't built an international identity and they lack an domestic rival. Monaco are more of a plastic club than PSG with zero fanbase, and now no financial backing. Lyon could be it with the new wave of money as they were 15 years ago but their model is not new and the young players that used to go to Lyon now go to EPL, Bundesliga and Spain.

But PSG is the catalyst. Let's see how it goes.

 

[Jair Ventura]

They are both African and French, so I was never wrong. If you asked them, I am sure that they would reply the same way.

Yet only a fraction of that domestic talent make it in elite clubs and good clubs. Even in France itself. Much of that talent is not domestic French talent but from the outside. For instance in Spain and Italy, the domestic talent is mostly fully indigenous. That is because of the history of France and their reliance on talents from former French colonies. Imagine if Spain could do the same with all of Latin America given that most locals there have a degree of Spanish ancestry from Mexico in the North (even certain US states such as California, Nevada, Texas, Arizona, Louisiana, Florida, New Mexico etc. - all former territories under the Spanish Empire and Crown) to Patagonia in the Chile and Argentina in the South next to Antarctica. For instance Messi could have played for either Spain or Italy. Maradona (a Galician surname) for either Spain, Paraguay or Croatia and so on.

Look at that France 1998 World Cup squad and see how many players were born abroad. They had the option of choosing their countries of birth and origin but decided to pick France. In Brazil alone there are some 15-20 million people of Spanish origins and even more of Italian origins. If Brazil was a poor national football team, Spain and Italy could be doing the same thing. Similar to Portugal. Even more so the latter. Why do you think it is so easy for Brazilian players to receive Portuguese, Spanish and Italian passports? Even the mixed players with partial African ancestry?

No difference. EPL has been full of English talent for the past 15 years. Not sure what the percentage of domestic players is but I assume that it is well above 50%. So your argument belongs in the dustbin.

So to make it simple for you.

1) A good domestic league does not equal a good national football team or great domestic talents.

2) Having many domestic talents and a good national football team does not necessarily mean that the domestic football league of country x or y is great.

Should not be that difficult to understand, I believe.

- They can be both African and French because ethnicity and nationality are two separate identities. We’ve already been over this.

- It’s entirely different because the buying power of the EPL is unique. No other domestic competition, including La Liga, carries the financial strength from top to bottom of Premier League clubs. That is why the top of the EPL is dominated by foreigners, and now even newly relegated clubs are able to spend up to €100m in a single window to overhaul their squads with foreign talents. Thereby explaining the disconnect between a strong domestic competition and a strong national team— The best EPL teams do not lean on English players or managers.

Clubs from Spain, Italy, Germany, and France do not have this luxury. Sure, each of their leagues carry a few clubs with enough buying power to bring in some of the better talents across the wolrd, but the middle and bottom table sides of all of the aforementioned competitions are heavily reliant on domestic players + managers to build their teams. I.e. Their domestic development systems.

Given the above, the idea that that average French player is significantly worse than the average Italian or English player is inane for this reason: If you take an average student from a prestigious institution with high academic standards, and an average student from a mediocre to below average institution with subpar academic standards, the student from the more prestigious institution is generally going to perform at a higher academic level.


Should not be that difficult to understand

 

[Leo_Messi]

- They can be both African and French because ethnicity and nationality are two separate identities. We’ve already been over this.

- It’s entirely different because the buying power of the EPL is unique. No other domestic competition, including La Liga, carries the financial strength from top to bottom of Premier League clubs. That is why the top of the EPL is dominated by foreigners, and now even newly relegated clubs are able to spend up to €100m in a single window to overhaul their squads with foreign talents. Thereby explaining the disconnect between a strong domestic competition and a strong national team— The best EPL teams do not lean on English players or managers.

Clubs from Spain, Italy, Germany, and France do not have this luxury. Sure, each of their leagues carry a few clubs with enough buying power to bring in some of the better talents across the wolrd, but the middle and bottom table sides of all of the aforementioned competitions are heavily reliant on domestic players + managers to build their teams. I.e. Their domestic development systems.

Given the above, the idea that that average French player is significantly worse than the average Italian or English player is inane for this reason: If you take an average student from a prestigious institution with high academic standards, and an average student from a mediocre to below average institution with subpar academic standards, the student from the more prestigious institution is generally going to perform at a higher academic level.


Should not be that difficult to understand

What are you even discussing or replying to and what has it to do with my factual points or what I wrote about Ligue 1?

No mental gymnastics is going to change the facts that I wrote about Ligue 1 in this thread and others. It is OK to be the fifth best league in Europe. Not the end of the world. Now move on, man.

 

[Jair Ventura]

What are you even discussing or replying to and what has it to do with my factual points or what I wrote about Ligue 1?

No mental gymnastics is going to change the facts that I wrote about Ligue 1 in this thread and others. It is OK to be the fifth best league in Europe. Not the end of the world. Now move on, man.

I’ll accept this as a concession of defeat.