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[Chainsaw]

I'm still wondering if there's a point to bringing him in, though. He's a good player, and with Dortmund not having CL he could be a good acquisition, but the way Lucho plays, do we really need another Xavi? Food for thought. I wouldn't be surprised if Lucho wasn't keen.

There is more sense in bringing Gundogon in than Pogba. Pogba will be Cesc saga all over again, except that we have to pay even a bigger amount for Pogba this time.

Barca getting Pogba means he has to be shoved into the first team which means one of Rakitic and Iniesta has to be sacrificed. But that won't be the case for Gundogon. Beside that, Pogba is ridiculously overpriced. I rate Pogba, but not 100m. Gundogon's pricetag is reasonable, no matter his recent form. He can slowly get transmitted into the team, which helps him to get to know the team, the environment and the language better. And he's not under the pressure to have the instant impact nor being forced into the first team, which will be the case for Pogba.

All that aside, I think Gundogon is a better fit for Barca than Pogba. Pogba will be a luxury signing, Gundogon is the reasonable one. So I hope the board doesn't do another Cesc all over again. There is absolutely no necessity to deform our starting eleven (bar the RB position). We need more depth though, ergo getting Gundogon and a back-up CF makes sense.

 

[BerkeleyBernie]

I'm still wondering if there's a point to bringing him in, though. He's a good player, and with Dortmund not having CL he could be a good acquisition, but the way Lucho plays, do we really need another Xavi? Food for thought. I wouldn't be surprised if Lucho wasn't keen.

You're assuming that Lucho plays the way he does because it's how he prefers to play. Any good coach is going to look at the tools at his disposal, and see how to make them work. Barcelona has played some fine tiki taka this season, as well as the more direct style necessitated by some of the opposition. Lucho may have simply made a decision that Xavi, even with all that he still brings to the pitch, lacked too much in needed defensive abilities to build him into his primary structure.

However, bringing in a younger conductor type who also can defend well in the midfield would change the tools Lucho has at his disposable. Rakitic needs rotation, and, though greatly improved, still not the most solid retainer and passer of the ball. In a game that needs more midfield control, Gundogan would offer skills missing from Rakitic's arsenal, without the liabilities of an older Xavi.

 

[khaled_a_d]

There is more sense in bringing Gundogon in than Pogba. Pogba will be Cesc saga all over again, except that we have to pay even a bigger amount for Pogba this time.

Barca getting Pogba means he has to be shoved into the first team which means one of Rakitic and Iniesta has to be sacrificed. But that won't be the case for Gundogon. Beside that, Pogba is ridiculously overpriced. I rate Pogba, but not 100m. Gundogon's pricetag is reasonable, no matter his recent form. He can slowly get transmitted into the team, which helps him to get to know the team, the environment and the language better. And he's not under the pressure to have the instant impact nor being forced into the first team, which will be the case for Pogba.

All that aside, I think Gundogon is a better fit for Barca than Pogba. Pogba will be a luxury signing, Gundogon is the reasonable one. So I hope the board doesn't do another Cesc all over again. There is absolutely no necessity to deform our starting eleven (bar the RB position). We need more depth though, ergo getting Gundogon and a back-up CF makes sense.

If anything ,I would think that Gundogan is the one who can be Cesc type of signing .a player who we brought thinking he is the next Xavi? You do realize that was literally said about Cesc?
Gundogan isn't his former self by any mean ,he lost a lot of his game and if he doesn't regain form then we are basically paying for a 2014-2015 version of Xavi
Iniesta will have to drop out of the starting lineup sooner or later ,yes he was gr8 later in the season and through the CL .but he showed signs of aging 2 years in a row and being 31 it isn't gonna improve .It is more about finding someone who can takeover Iniesta in the starting lineup and let him rest more and be used more wisely

 

[KingMessi]

I still believe we ought to bring in a midfielder, in addition to the big name midfielder who will most definitely arrive in Summer 2016, during the winter transfer window if Samper/Rafinha/Halilovic fail to impress by then.

I'd prefer Kovacic for that. But I'd take Gundogan as well if the price is right.

 

[Chainsaw]

If anything ,I would think that Gundogan is the one who can be Cesc type of signing .a player who we brought thinking he is the next Xavi? You do realize that was literally said about Cesc?

People called Cesc "Xavi Successor" to justify his move to Barca when the midfield was already packed, but he wasn't be any means Xavi Successor at the first place because they were different type of players to begin with. Cesc excel best as an AM while Xavi as a CM. Me comparing Pogba to Cesc saga has nothing to do with their playstyle but merely pointing out that if he's to arrive he's expected to be a starter, and guess what? The starting 11 is already set here for the next season.

Gundogan isn't his former self by any mean ,he lost a lot of his game and if he doesn't regain form then we are basically paying for a 2014-2015 version of Xavi

Gundogan is 24 years old, coming back from a career threatening injury. Ofc it takes time for him to regain his form again. Doesn't mean he's never going to regain it again. For the rumored 25-30m Gundogan is our best option to take.

Iniesta will have to drop out of the starting lineup sooner or later ,yes he was gr8 later in the season and through the CL .but he showed signs of aging 2 years in a row and being 31 it isn't gonna improve .It is more about finding someone who can takeover Iniesta in the starting lineup and let him rest more and be used more wisely

This "resting" thing is truly getting overused here. Resting means certain players don't get to play every single match because there is no good alternative to replace them. It doesn't mean they're going to be out of the starting line-up once every 2,3 matches. The best 11 will start all the crucial matches, specially heading toward the end of the season. You cannot buy a top player with an insane amount and say: "Hey we're counting on you and you're important for us, but you get to play one pointless match once every 3 weeks". Big players don't like to be benched EVER! Let alone sitting on a bench week in week out. Remember when Cesc started complaining about his lack of playing time here right in his first season? Pogba is not going to arrive so Ineista can rest more. He's coming to replace him or Rakitic in the starting line-up. Are you in favor of this to happen?

 

[khaled_a_d]

People called Cesc "Xavi Successor" to justify his move to Barca when the midfield was already packed, but he wasn't be any means Xavi Successor at the first place because they were different type of players to begin with. Cesc excel best as an AM while Xavi as a CM. Me comparing Pogba to Cesc saga has nothing to do with their playstyle but merely pointing out that if he's to arrive he's expected to be a starter, and guess what? The starting 11 is already set here for the next season.



Gundogan is 24 years old, coming back from a career threatening injury. Ofc it takes time for him to regain his form again. Doesn't mean he's never going to regain it again. For the rumored 25-30m Gundogan is our best option to take.



This "resting" thing is truly getting overused here. Resting means certain players don't get to play every single match because there is no good alternative to replace them. It doesn't mean they're going to be out of the starting line-up once every 2,3 matches. The best 11 will start all the crucial matches, specially heading toward the end of the season. You cannot buy a top player with an insane amount and say: "Hey we're counting on you and you're important for us, but you get to play one pointless match once every 3 weeks". Big players don't like to be benched EVER! Let alone sitting on a bench week in week out. Remember when Cesc started complaining about his lack of playing time here right in his first season? Pogba is not going to arrive so Ineista can rest more. He's coming to replace him or Rakitic in the starting line-up. Are you in favor of this to happen?

Hindsight is good thing,you can say Cesc wasn't next Xavi now ,but back then everyone said the same thing .midfield wasn't that backed too then .Xavi was 31 and Thiago was just youngster and we wanted Cesc for so long and didn't really need to justify it
Trying to replace a player with the closest thing to him is dangerous and rarely work .Rakitic has proved to be Xavi best replacement and they are nothing a like .having same style of play as ours doesn't mean player will fit

Gundogan is 24 and might regain form ,but with those type of injuries it isn't given.it is 50-50 chance or worse .player might be back to being healthy but that doesn't equal regaining your quickness and athleticism back .

And again ,Iniesta is 31 and by the time we get Pogba will be 32 ,Iniesta is one of my all time favorite but he won't be starter here more than couple of seasons at best.
So Pogba won't lose starting spot more than one season at worst ,it isn't comparable with Cesc .who btw played a lot

 

[Flavia]

Hindsight is good thing,you can say Cesc wasn't next Xavi now ,but back then everyone said the same thing .midfield wasn't that backed too then .Xavi was 31 and Thiago was just youngster and we wanted Cesc for so long and didn't really need to justify it

No, Cesc was never really wanted by most fans. I remember clearly many being against bringing him back, as there was no place or need for him.

 

[khaled_a_d]

No, Cesc was never really wanted by most fans. I remember clearly many being against bringing him back, as there was no place or need for him.

I didn't point to the fans ,there is always fans who don't want certain players . But the media ,the players the board etc all wanted him since Laporta days

 

[Chainsaw]

Hindsight is good thing,you can say Cesc wasn't next Xavi now ,but back then everyone said the same thing .midfield wasn't that backed too then .Xavi was 31 and Thiago was just youngster and we wanted Cesc for so long and didn't really need to justify it
Trying to replace a player with the closest thing to him is dangerous and rarely work .Rakitic has proved to be Xavi best replacement and they are nothing a like .having same style of play as ours doesn't mean player will fit

Gundogan is 24 and might regain form ,but with those type of injuries it isn't given.it is 50-50 chance or worse .player might be back to being healthy but that doesn't equal regaining your quickness and athleticism back .

And again ,Iniesta is 31 and by the time we get Pogba will be 32 ,Iniesta is one of my all time favorite but he won't be starter here more than couple of seasons at best.
So Pogba won't lose starting spot more than one season at worst ,it isn't comparable with Cesc .who btw played a lot

You've chosen a bad case to go with the reminders because I personally was one of those people against singing Cesc for the exact same reasons I am saying now, and we weren't wrong in the end. You can go back into the Cesc Fabregas thread to see for yourself (if the earlier pages haven't been removed).

Iniesta being 31 or 32 doesn't make any difference. As long as he can deliver he'll be a starter here. Easy to drop stuff like "Iniesta won't be starter here more than couple of seasons at best. So Pogba won't lose starting spot more than one season at worst". I remember the exact same excuses was made by Cesc supporters, except it was Xavi instead of Iniesta at the time who had to be gone in a couple of seasons so Cesc could finally take their spot. Like it ever happened! lel

Players like Pogba with that huge pricetag on them arrive to be a starter right away. "If" and "when" doesn't convince them to be settled with a bench role for "a year" so maybe, "maybe" those ahead of him decline so they feel like a starter at last!

 

[khaled_a_d]

You've chosen a bad case to go with the reminders because I personally was one of those people against singing Cesc for the exact same reasons I am saying now, and we weren't wrong in the end. You can go back into the Cesc Fabregas thread to see for yourself (if the earlier pages haven't been removed).

Iniesta being 31 or 32 doesn't make any difference. As long as he can deliver he'll be a starter here. Easy to drop stuff like "Iniesta won't be starter here more than couple of seasons at best. So Pogba won't lose starting spot more than one season at worst". I remember the exact same excuses was made by Cesc supporters, except it was Xavi instead of Iniesta at the time who had to be gone in a couple of seasons so Cesc could finally take their spot. Like it ever happened! lel

Players like Pogba with that huge pricetag on them arrive to be a starter right away. "If" and "when" doesn't convince them to be settled with a bench role for "a year" so maybe, "maybe" those ahead of him decline so they feel like a starter at last!

Again ,there are those among fans who doubt every player signing ,I myself was against Cesc from the start .
Xavi showed he shouldn't have stayed starter in 2013-2014 (and we may argue one season b4) and he was 33 ,same age Iniesta will be in 2017 .Yes it is easy to throw stuff like that because it is the most logical and rational one ,Iniesta may have came from MOTM in CL final ,but that doesn't change the fact that during most of the season he wasn't his former self ,neither in last year .age is already showing
We needed someone to replace Xavi ,but it wasn't Cesc .who again didn't lack playing time .he left after the season he played most ,more than Xavi actually in terms of game appearance
And do you really think Gundogan will be any different? he will want to be starter too ,price doesn't change that

 

[FCBarca]

No, Cesc was never really wanted by most fans. I remember clearly many being against bringing him back, as there was no place or need for him.

A lot of us were, khaled is far off with that comment - wasn't anywhere near a majority IMHO

The gloryhunter tag stuck then as it does now

 

[Chainsaw]

And do you really think Gundogan will be any different? he will want to be starter too ,price doesn't change that

Gundogan sure want to be a starter too, but base on his current form there is less pressure to shove him into the starting line-up. He by no means is at the level to be a starter for Barcelona right now and I believe he's well aware of that. If he arrives he can settle here slowly. Take his way back to the top form step by step (like ter Stegen) without the pressure to make the instant impact. If he fails or get unsettled the club can still sell him for a fee not far from what they paid for him, or maybe the same. Not sure I can say the same about the 100m Pogba.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Gundogan sure want to be a starter too, but base on his current form there is less pressure to shove him into the starting line-up. He by no means is at the level to be a starter for Barcelona right now and I believe he's well aware of that. If he arrives he can settle here slowly. Take his way back to the top form step by step (like ter Stegen) without the pressure to make the instant impact. If he fails or get unsettled the club can still sell him for a fee not far from what they paid for him, or maybe the same. Not sure I can say the same about the 100m Pogba.

What will make a soon to be 25 years old player accept that? specially for one who has 1 year in contract left and has all the leverage to go wherever he wants and many big clubs interested? nevermind he will have to sacrifice 1st half of the season to wait for us? whether he stay in the club that he wants to leave or stay here just to train
This makes absolutely no sense for Gundogan ,and a player of his caliber won't admit that he isn't a starting material btw even if he isn't.I highly doubt he will move to a club he doesn't have a promise to be starter

 

[Chainsaw]

What will make a soon to be 25 years old player accept that? specially for one who has 1 year in contract left and has all the leverage to go wherever he wants and many big clubs interested? nevermind he will have to sacrifice 1st half of the season to wait for us? whether he stay in the club that he wants to leave or stay here just to train
This makes absolutely no sense for Gundogan ,and a player of his caliber won't admit that he isn't a starting material btw even if he isn't.I highly doubt he will move to a club he doesn't have a promise to be starter

Whether that makes sense for Gundogan or not he should answer that not me. If I had as big belly as he has right now and I've been a shadow of my former self in the past year I would have my expectations adjusted. Rather work to get my form back than whine about why I am not playing.

What I am saying here is between Pogba and Gundogan, considering everything mentioned, I prefer going for Gundogan than Pogba. If Gundogan doesn't like the bench role as you're suggesting he will choose another club than Barcelona to play for next season. But if he arrives here we can be sure the coaching staff has no obligation to start him unless he wins his place in the team.

 

[KingMessi]

You do know that he's not fat anymore right? That picture is from when he was physically unable to train as a result of his back injury.