Ivan Rakitić

Leo_Messi

New member
I am sure that mostly RM fans are taking the piss here but that opinion poll on Sport has to be rigged or I question the sanity of most of our fans. I don't know of any local fan not over 40 years old that has been pleased with Rakitic this season or the last one. Let alone wanting to renew him!

Been saying this since the summer of 2016. We should have sold him ages ago.
 

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
I am sure that mostly RM fans are taking the piss here but that opinion poll on Sport has to be rigged or I question the sanity of most of our fans. I don't know of any local fan not over 40 years old that has been pleased with Rakitic this season or the last one. Let alone wanting to renew him!

You've obviously not been on Barcelona Spanish Twitter. A lot of them believe Rakitic is an indisputable part of this team for the short- and long-term.
 

Leo_Messi

New member
You've obviously not been on Barcelona Spanish Twitter. A lot of them believe Rakitic is an indisputable part of this team for the short- and long-term.

I am but I doubt that the pro-Rakitic lot are in the majority. Rakitic has been one of the most criticized players of ours on local forums for the past 2 seasons. Anyway fans are fickle and not exactly the brighest lot as it only takes a good or a bad performance before they make bombastic claims. Case in point Roberto being declared the next Dani Alves a few weeks into his RB career here.

God forbid we go out against Lyon but should we disappoint once again in the CL, with once again another mediocre performance from Rakitic, I am sure that even the most blind will call for his head and that of most others btw.
 
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xXKonan

Senior Member
The comments I have seen on Reddit they talk about Rakitic being the engine of our Midfield but they are also talking like the 2014-16 Rakitic is the same one we have seen since 2017.

There's a difference between that Raktiic and this Rakitic. The older Rakitic had problems dealing with the press but he had the legs and worked hard up and down the flank providing linkup and coverage with Alves and Messi and looks willing to join the attack more often.

This Rakitic is far more conservative and plays more like a static DM these days as he cannot play effectively as a CM in a three-man Midfield anymore as he did and generally looks even slower and often at times looks tactically "Lazy" at times in the build up as he doesn't effecitively make enough space at times.
 

YodaMaster

Member
With Suarez walking for 90 minutes and not being able to make a simple pass, with bad performance from Coutinho once again, with Vidal playing like a drunk man and Roberto like a clown on the right side you again find Rakitic as our main problem? Unbelievable stuff.

He was bad I agree but tell me who was good against Bilbao except Mats? I get you hate him but try to be less biased FFS.

I wrote it in my message: he was the worst player in the most crucial part of the match which was the last 20 mins against Bilbao. He probably was worst player of second half alongside Suarez. That same second half where Barca was getting better and better, looked like the team would end up by finding a way to score. Rakitic fucked it all up in the last quarter. The obvious thing to do was to sub him off because he was useless in that second half. Go rewatch it.

Coutinho and Roberto had better overall games than Rakitic. And IMO Roberto and Coutinho can GTFO from this club, just like Rakitic, I have zero preference between these 3. Because Coutinho went out, and given that team needed to score, Rakitic had to take more responsibilities up front, that's when he got completely exposed. If anything, Rakitic could hide on the pitch thanks to Coutinho's presence.

Dude the other day you told me Rakitic had a great performance against Espanyol when in reality he was just avergage or slightly above average in that game. I rewatched that game and describe Ivan's display to you, you never answered the call. I came on this forum and wrote that he had a good game against Sevilla when he really had a good game for once in 2019. Who's the biased one ? Even when you admit that Rakitic is bad, you'll automatically go and say "But Busquets (or Suarez or Vidal or another one) was worse". You're the biased one here.

Who was good against Bilbao ? Busquets, the other undisputed starter was 10 times better than Rakitic and Busquets actually had to cover spaces for useless Rakitic who on top of being useless had also dumb plays that were main reasons for Bilbao's best chances that MATS somehow stopped.
But this kind of reasoning aka 'he was bad but who was good' is what will bring Barca down. Defense was good and Busquets did good in midfield. Midfield is the most important side of a team, midfielders dictate the flow of the match. That's why young kid from a Brazil Arthur hardly ever had a bad game even when all his teammates were shit.

You and Scott Arizona also seem to ignore the fact that this guy's status isn't comparable to guys like Vidal or Alena. Vidal isn't even a starter, he's older than Rakitc and he hasn't even been here for 1 year. This old and rusty Vidal will never be good enough for Barca, so you comparing Rakitic to that guy is actually very telling in your disfavour. Alena played 5 matches at best for Barca. Rakitic is undisputed starter since 2014 FFS.
The standards aren't and shouldn't be the same for a long term starter and for bench warmers.
 
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YodaMaster

Member
Let's take one example, the recent match (Bilboa). Here is the whoscored ratings (with sofascore). MATS 8.3 (7.9), Messi 7.8 (7.0), Roberto 7.6 (7.0), Busi 7.2 (7.0), Pique 7.1 (7.1), Rakitic 7.0 (6.9), Coutinho 6.9 (6.9), Vidal 6.7 (5.9), Semedo 6.6 (6.6), Suarez 6.4 (6.1), Lenglet 6.3 (6.4).

The day you'll decide to watch and analyze games by yourself instead of watching what numbers other people put on to describe a football performance, that day we can discuss. To start with, go rewatch the game (especially the second half) and tell me which things Rakitic did good and which one he did bad. You'll see how useless he was. I know you won't do that, you love numbers more than football.

Btw, giving Vidal a 6.7 shows just what kind of bullshit these ratings site are. Also giving Semedo a 6.6 when he was alright or good under those complicated circumstances. Also, Semedo and Lenglet got caught 2 times at the end of the match because Rakitic fucked up but the 2 defenders tried and couldn't compensate his fuck-ups. These ratings site don't take this in consideration because they don't rate off the ball movement and for them a crucial lost ball is just a lost ball like another.
 

Raketa10

Senior Member
I wrote it in my message: he was the worst player in the most crucial part of the match which was the last 20 mins against Bilbao. He probably was worst player of second half alongside Suarez. That same second half where Barca was getting better and better, looked like the team would end up by finding a way to score. Rakitic fucked it all up in the last quarter. The obvious thing to do was to sub him off because he was useless in that second half. Go rewatch it.

Coutinho and Roberto had better overall games than Rakitic. And IMO Roberto and Coutinho can GTFO from this club, just like Rakitic, I have zero preference between these 3. Because Coutinho went out, and given that team needed to score, Rakitic had to take more responsibilities up front, that's when he got completely exposed. If anything, Rakitic could hide on the pitch thanks to Coutinho's presence.

Dude the other day you told me Rakitic had a great performance against Espanyol when in reality he was just avergage or slightly above average in that game. I rewatched that game and describe Ivan's display to you, you never answered the call. I came on this forum and wrote that he had a good game against Sevilla when he really had a good game for once in 2019. Who's the biased one ? Even when you admit that Rakitic is bad, you'll automatically go and say "But Busquets (or Suarez or Vidal or another one) was worse". You're the biased one here.

Who was good against Bilbao ? Busquets, the other undisputed starter was 10 times better than Rakitic and Busquets actually had to cover spaces for useless Rakitic who on top of being useless had also dumb plays that were main reasons for Bilbao's best chances that MATS somehow stopped.
But this kind of reasoning aka 'he was bad but who was good' is what will bring Barca down. Defense was good and Busquets did good in midfield. Midfield is the most important side of a team, midfielders dictate the flow of the match. That's why young kid from a Brazil Arthur hardly ever had a bad game even when all his teammates were shit.

You and Scott Arizona also seem to ignore the fact that this guy's status isn't comparable to guys like Vidal or Alena. Vidal isn't even a starter, he's older than Rakitc and he hasn't even been here for 1 year. This old and rusty Vidal will never be good enough for Barca, so you comparing Rakitic to that guy is actually very telling in your disfavour. Alena played 5 matches at best for Barca. Rakitic is undisputed starter since 2014 FFS.
The standards aren't and shouldn't be the same for a long term starter and for bench warmers.

If I am biased towards Rakitic than you are definitely biased towards Busi. He was also bad in that game. And did you really rewatch the entire game vs Espanyol? Like seriously? You must be kidding right? :lol:
 
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YodaMaster

Member
If I am biased towards Rakitic than you are definitely biased towards Busi. He was also bad in that game. And did you really rewatch the entire game vs Espanyol? Like seriously? You must be kidding right? :lol:

Busquets was by far our best midfielder in that game. Was he great ? Nope. But playing with 2 garbage fellow midfielders (CM's !) didn't help. He still easily outperformed them both.
So now you wanna talk about that Espnayol game huh, after ignoring my post for weeks ? Lol you're a clown. I'm still waiting for you to address the initial post about that game, I won't repeat myself. Btw, guess what ? Yep I did rewatch the entire game. And it changes absolutely nothing to what I said: game was done at 3-0. You should go rewatch it too then come and say again that it was a great performance from Rakitic.
 

Arizona Scott

New member
Dude i watch the matches with barca, many times addtitional times going back to key play and analyze sequences--good and bad--with focus on individual and collective contributions, and failures(or nearly failures). I look at the stats later (or in between viewings to maybe check my own bias). Stats for an individual game are always going to be some suspect. However over a season or seasons the are increasingly telling, particularly for the scapegoat club and the overly optimistic views we would be so much better with x guy from la mesia, x player from another team, etc
 

SeloBarca

Senior Member
I am sure that mostly RM fans are taking the piss here but that opinion poll on Sport has to be rigged or I question the sanity of most of our fans. I don't know of any local fan not over 40 years old that has been pleased with Rakitic this season or the last one. Let alone wanting to renew him!

Been saying this since the summer of 2016. We should have sold him ages ago.

Of topic, but would be interesting to hear what "fans" that actually live in Barcelona say.
Do they have their own opinions and critisize players/coaches/board, or are they driven by the medias opinions?

Alot of times its very frustrating hearing most of the socis are just "status" members and dont do crap for the club
 

Raketa10

Senior Member
Busquets was by far our best midfielder in that game. Was he great ? Nope. But playing with 2 garbage fellow midfielders (CM's !) didn't help. He still easily outperformed them both.
So now you wanna talk about that Espnayol game huh, after ignoring my post for weeks ? Lol you're a clown. I'm still waiting for you to address the initial post about that game, I won't repeat myself. Btw, guess what ? Yep I did rewatch the entire game. And it changes absolutely nothing to what I said: game was done at 3-0. You should go rewatch it too then come and say again that it was a great performance from Rakitic.

Sorry mate but I honestly don't have time to rewatch that game and I didn't see your post. What strikes me is that when Raki is bad it's because he is garbage but when Busi is bad than he is bad because others are garbage. I won't call you a clown I'll rather discuss this in polite way and I'll say we'll never agree on Raki and that's fine. To be fair I honestly can't comprehend the fact that you don't see how much Busi declined. There is also another problem which was emphasized over million times here. Busi was a perfect player for Pep's Barca when Xavi and Iniesta were there. With those two gone he is lost in the system. He is slightly better this season but during last season in 4-4-2 formation he was awful. His main strength is gone and not only when he plays for Barca but he also struggled with Spain NT in the WC and Nations League.

Let's forget about Raki because he'll be gone in summer but please tell me at what does Busi excel these days? We all know his best position was pivotal role in midfield when we had strictly defined positional play. He is not a classical DM player because he is not that god in defense, no to mention he is slow as turtle. He also doesn't have long pass at all and he can't shoot the ball. What he has is a perfect short pass, his off ball movement is also great and his game reading is epic but in this kind of midfield that becomes basically irrelevant. You'll say that's because he is forced to play with Raki and Vidal. Ok I agree on that but tell me do you really think FDJ and Arthur will be able to control the game like Xavi and Don did? Do you honestly think we'll rebuild our dream midfield and that Busi will excel once again? Keep in mind that none of the three (Busi, Arthur, FDJ) is physically strong and for that to function they'll basically need to have a perfect cooperation and ball possession like we had with Pep. Unfortunately the moment we lose the ball Busi becomes a liability and I don't see that changing. I would also like to emphasize that both FDJ and Arthur are closer to Xavi than to Don but that's another problem.

Bare in mind also that football has evolved. Every year it becomes faster and faster and midfielders are more box to box players than ever before. I sincerely doubt Busi can survive in this type of football for much longer.
 
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MTL_Barca

Well-known member
If he reallly is pushing for a renewal + more money it's the right decision to decline that and look for a transfer. We simply can't put all our 30+ yo players on long expensive contracts any longer.
 

Leo_Messi

New member
Of topic, but would be interesting to hear what "fans" that actually live in Barcelona say.
Do they have their own opinions and critisize players/coaches/board, or are they driven by the medias opinions?

Alot of times its very frustrating hearing most of the socis are just "status" members and dont do crap for the club

Not a uniform group. Most socis/socios tend to be older and thus not part of the social media age group. They get most of their opinions from the established newspapers and official news channels. They also have much worser time periods of the club in relative fresh memory so they tend to be more content in general whenever the club is doing ok, well or very good. Younger ones like me are more demanding as the only bad period that I have witnessed where the last years of the Gaspart era. Talking about as a well-informed fan here as I witnessed the Dream Team as a little child/toddler as well, lol.

So opinions will depend on the age group that the particular soci/socio belongs to.

It's natural. When you don't know anything else you don't tend to be too grateful. I know that from myself in other aspects of life. It's only until you experience real poverty abroad during a visit (say India) that you truly reflect. It's the same thing with all other people. What you have you take for granted until it is gone.

Anyway since Boixos Nois and other fan groups where banned noise wise it has never been the same again. I have been told many times that Camp Nou was a real fortress, in particular during European games, for practically the entirety of the 1980's and much of the 1990's. Remember some games from the childhood where the noise level was unlike anything later experienced. Back when Camp Nou could house 120.000 people!
 
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Zidane82

Well-known member
Of topic, but would be interesting to hear what "fans" that actually live in Barcelona say.
Do they have their own opinions and critisize players/coaches/board, or are they driven by the medias opinions?

Alot of times its very frustrating hearing most of the socis are just "status" members and dont do crap for the club
Check out our CHATROOM on match days !!
 

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