*was
Jasper Cillessen
- Thread starter xXKonan
- Start date
*was
xXKonan
Senior Member
I won't doubt Mou's accomplishments and while he is a total wanker, I wouldn't doubt his ability as a manager either.
But in recent times, it seems he has not evolved much at all. The football philosophy that won him a lot of titles and gave him the reputation of being a total wanker with the defensive bus parking tactics has evolved as well.
Let's be clear, Mou wasn't the first manager to deploy such tactics that led him to success but in the past 10-15 years people use to associate such football with Mourinho. But in recent years managers like Simeone have had success with a defensive system but with managers like Simeone, they are doing a better job than Mou is with the same system and are nowhere near as toxic either.
Simeone not only can replicate what Mou did for years, but he can do it without causing destruction behind the scenes in the locker room as well. very rarely you will ever see him thrown his own players under the bus or the club in general so he can save his own ass.
With Mou it starts off well but he cannot for the life of him go a number of seasons in the club without everything falling apart behind the scenes.
But in recent times, it seems he has not evolved much at all. The football philosophy that won him a lot of titles and gave him the reputation of being a total wanker with the defensive bus parking tactics has evolved as well.
Let's be clear, Mou wasn't the first manager to deploy such tactics that led him to success but in the past 10-15 years people use to associate such football with Mourinho. But in recent years managers like Simeone have had success with a defensive system but with managers like Simeone, they are doing a better job than Mou is with the same system and are nowhere near as toxic either.
Simeone not only can replicate what Mou did for years, but he can do it without causing destruction behind the scenes in the locker room as well. very rarely you will ever see him thrown his own players under the bus or the club in general so he can save his own ass.
With Mou it starts off well but he cannot for the life of him go a number of seasons in the club without everything falling apart behind the scenes.
BarçaBarça
New member
For once we have the opportunity to get overprice for a player - so we really should utilize it all we could.
We don't need to sell, so it would be kind of great to keep him for another year at least.
Let us make Liverpool pay ridiculous money if they want him. They lost Fekir, and need another boost, have the money, so this time we can't be intimidated.
I would say that we only accept 60M (transfer, so they don't need the taxpayments like with the buyout). It would be a great message to other clubs in other negotiations that we are able to stand our ground, even if it means there is no deal in the end.
We don't need to sell, so it would be kind of great to keep him for another year at least.
Let us make Liverpool pay ridiculous money if they want him. They lost Fekir, and need another boost, have the money, so this time we can't be intimidated.
I would say that we only accept 60M (transfer, so they don't need the taxpayments like with the buyout). It would be a great message to other clubs in other negotiations that we are able to stand our ground, even if it means there is no deal in the end.
Messi983
Senior Member
There are no taxes when activating buyout clause anymore.
I agree with you about sending a message to other clubs but as much as I'd like to see Liverpool being desperate enough to pay 50 or 60M for Cillessen I don't think any club would pay that much. It's possible that Oblak and/or Allison will move for much higher fees this summer but as of now 60M would be a record transfer fee for GKs by far. If we get around 40M this would be close to Ederson's record fee. I think the club will consider selling Jasper for any offer over 25-30M as long as they'll be able to find a good replacement for cheap so we'll get around 20M profit from a difference between Cillessen's fee and what we'll have to pay for his replacement. That's what I think would be good enough for the club to accept (probably pretty big) downgrade at backup GK position because it's very unlikely we'll find someone nearly as good as Cillessen that will be prepared to accept his role.
I also think our decision to sell Cillessen will depend a lot on if we'll get Griezmann. If we won't then I think we'll have enough money to get Arthur, Lenglet, De Jong and/or Thiago and possibly another player or two just with our usual transfer budget and selling players we don't need. If we'll really get close to 30M for Marlon and Deulofeu this would be a great start of the transfer window. If we'll sign Griezmann then our total spendings will exceed 200M and we'll probably need to sell some of the useful squad players as well to get some money back. And Cillessen has (one of) the highest value(s) (for other teams) among our backup players.
El Barcelona
Well-known member
If they want him they can pay the release clausule. We gave enough presents to others clubs. We're in a strong position when cillissen is happy and not pushing for a move.
Saladin
Active member
This!
We are in for a summer transfer window that will see the prices of goalkeepers reach an all-time high; Liverpool are in dire need of a keeper; Chelsea are on the lookout after Courtois has been eyeing a move to Madrid; Arsenal are in need of a quality keeper now that Cech is 82 years old.
The 3-4 keepers hot on the market right now are Jan Oblak, Allison, Courtois and Cillesen; the pricetags for the first three are all between 70-100 mil euros (market value, rumours) - letting Cillesen, who is a QUALITY keeper, go for anything under 40 mil euros would be laughable. He clearly respects the club and feels wanted, but he also has ambitions of more playing time and being a starter which is fair given his qualities.
My main point, which is on the line with other board members, is that Cillesen should be an easy win/win scenario for us if managed properly; wait out the transfer window until clubs get more desperate (whilst having a decent backup keeper in place, just in case) and cash in on a late transfer - WIN
OR see him stay put, which is also a big positive due to his quality (should Ter Stegen get injured, competition, Copa del Rey) and professionalism.
GOAT_SUAREZ
New member
this. They need to suffer.
BarçaBarça
New member
I didn't know about the taxes - that is great news for us when we buy other La Liga-players in the future.
I agree with most of what you are saying - also that it is reasonable for the club to accept a 20M profit (we are not in dire need for quality in the 2nd goalkeeper anyway), and that it will depend on Griezmann. But I think you are underestimating the market and Liverpools ambitions. They are deadtired of signing 2nd rank players, and the Van Dijk-transfer shows some of that determination: It is the world record for a defender! They could easily get cheaper and worse player - maybe even 2 good defenders, but since their problems has always been defending they switched direction and went for expensive quality instead. That got rewarded, because he has been exactly what they wanted. Will Oblak, Allison or Courtois go to Liverpool? I doubt it, therefore Cillesen is among the most qualified candidates they can get. Crazier things has happened than Liverpool paying 60M for Cillesen to fix a permanent problem for them.
The question is if the new sporting-director-team will play hardball to set an example (go all in with big potential payoff) or do the more reasonable thing as you say and land some fine money that could help us this window already.
MTL_Barca
Well-known member
Why are people so mad at Liverpool? Because they didn't sell us a world class player days before the window closed? We still got him in winter. Super expensive but it's not like they ripped us off for fun, the price was crazy but it's not like its completely out of this world that's just what happened last summer. I mean reports said that even Lemar should cost 100M lol.
Cillessen is a good GK but we don't have to hype him up to world class now i mean we got him as a sub for 13M so it's not like we talk about one of our staters here that we have to keep at all costs.
Something like 40M for example would be an amazing deal too so i don't get this "pay his clause or fuck off" attitude. If Cillessen wants to leave and Liverpool or any other club is willing to pay a good price we should negotiate with them.
Cillessen is a good GK but we don't have to hype him up to world class now i mean we got him as a sub for 13M so it's not like we talk about one of our staters here that we have to keep at all costs.
Something like 40M for example would be an amazing deal too so i don't get this "pay his clause or fuck off" attitude. If Cillessen wants to leave and Liverpool or any other club is willing to pay a good price we should negotiate with them.
MTL_Barca
Well-known member
If he doesn't want to leave there will be no transfer obviously, no matter how much a club would pay.
xXKonan
Senior Member
Despite not playing a lot his stock has risen a lot since he joined us.
I remember people viewed him as nothing more than a bog standard keeper at Ajax that couldn't save a pen to save his life. But since his move here he has shown a lot of quality in his limited minutes here which let teams like Liverpool,Arsenal etc to come sniffing around for him.
I remember people viewed him as nothing more than a bog standard keeper at Ajax that couldn't save a pen to save his life. But since his move here he has shown a lot of quality in his limited minutes here which let teams like Liverpool,Arsenal etc to come sniffing around for him.
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