Josep Maria Bartomeu

SeloBarca

SeloBarca

Senior Member
Almost all groups that call themselves ultras are connected with facism , violance and crime, be it Italian or Spanish leagues.
 
DennyCrane

DennyCrane

Senior Member
khaled_a_d said:
No it shouldn't ,they are very passionate fans .yes many take it to extreme and it should be put under more control .but ceasing it or preventing it from without actual charges true signs of violence is ridiculous .I am sorry but I don't like preventing them to keep the stadium too classy IMO
I also didn't notice their presence into the Camp Nou for that matter .I honestly know nothing about Boixos Nois and I am open to know more about what they do and what type of Ultras they are
I also know about the atletico and Depor incident but that doesn't make all of them bad ,again I believe they should be more regulated and clubs should be more smarter dealing with them too
Search ultras world on youtube ,many impressive passionate atmospheres out there btw
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Don't get me wrong, I like the atmosphere Ultras can bring to a stadium in general and I'm not opposed to pyroshows as well, but the problem with these guys is that they embrace violence as an outlet for anger and as a political tool. The sheer existence of ultra groups is more and more based on differentiation from others than it is on identification with the club they support which inevitably leads to violent outbursts. One could write these off as isolated cases and criminals within these groups, yet the groups never dissociate themselves from violence in general or from violent members. They either choose to ignore it or show perverse delight, as evidenced by the display of 'Gracias Liverpool' banners by Boixos Nois after the Heysel disaster.

The most problematic thing about the Boixos apart from the occasional violent outbursts is the clear shift to a fascist political stance as a group around the middle of the eighties when the traditional left-wing ultra scene was more or less undercut, occasional roman salutes in the stadium or the repeated adressing of Lluis Bassat as a 'fucking jew' included. Which is kinda baffling when you think about it since these guys seem to believe that fascism and catalan independence go together, leading to strange scenes where you can see them flying senyera flags with an embedded swastika on it. Makes even less sense in the context of Spain's overall political past and the immediate repercussions fascist Spain had on the region of Catalonia and the club as well.

What's worse, our former president Nunez saw this development yet decided to to nothing because he saw that he can use these people for his own political ambitions; when the Boixos were still in large part left-wingers they repeatedly demanded his resignation so he welcomed the development. Gaspart as well, going so far as to identify with them.

As for finding different solutions and somehow working with these groups, DFB in Germany tried and had mixed success with german ultra groups. But in the case of the Boixis, that ship has sailed when they put out death threats towards Laporta at the very latest.
 
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khaled_a_d

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
DennyCrane said:
Don't get me wrong, I like the atmosphere Ultras can bring to a stadium in general and I'm not opposed to pyroshows as well, but the problem with these guys is that they embrace violence as an outlet for anger and as a political tool. The sheer existence of ultra groups is more and more based on differentiation from others than it is on identification with the club they support which inevitably leads to violent outbursts. One could write these off as isolated cases and criminals within these groups, yet the groups never dissociate themselves from violence in general or from violent members. They either choose to ignore it or show perverse delight, as evidenced by the display of 'Gracias Liverpool' banners by Boixos Nois after the Heysel disaster.

The most problematic thing about the Boixos apart from the occasional violent outbursts is the clear shift to a fascist political stance as a group around the middle of the eighties when the traditional left-wing ultra scene was more or less undercut, occasional roman salutes in the stadium or the repeated adressing of Lluis Bassat as a 'fucking jew' included. Which is kinda baffling when you think about it since these guys seem to believe that fascism and catalan independence go together, leading to strange scenes where you can see them flying senyera flags with an embedded swastika on it. Makes even less sense in the context of Spain's overall political past and the immediate repercussions fascist Spain had on the region of Catalonia and the club as well.

What's worse, our former president Nunez saw this development yet decided to to nothing because he saw that he can use these people for his own political ambitions; when the Boixos were still in large part left-wingers they repeatedly demanded his resignation so he welcomed the development. Gaspart as well, going so far as to identify with them.

As for finding different solutions and somehow working with these groups, DFB in Germany tried and had mixed success with german ultra groups. But in the case of the Boixis, that ship has sailed when they put out death threats towards Laporta at the very latest.
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1st thanks for giving me a subjective answer rather than the general "they are bad guys"answer .as I said I don't know that much about Boixis even though I am a fan for 15 years
As for Ultras in General I agree with many points,they in many cases refuse to separate themselves from guys they will be way better without them ,Germany has done good job as you said and I think with more open minded you can have better results too.
I also want to say that in many cases Ultras used to be attacked for wrong reasons ,political,financial or economical etc .many times clubs tries to stain their reputations in media because of differences with them or protecting their own corruption etc.we have sometimes to look deeper than just listen to the media,again talking general not about Boixis
 
F

Flavia

Guest
khaled_a_d said:
1st thanks for giving me a subjective answer rather than the general "they are bad guys"answer .as I said I don't know that much about Boixis even though I am a fan for 15 years
As for Ultras in General I agree with many points,they in many cases refuse to separate themselves from guys they will be way better without them ,Germany has done good job as you said and I think with more open minded you can have better results too.
I also want to say that in many cases Ultras used to be attacked for wrong reasons ,political,financial or economical etc .many times clubs tries to stain their reputations in media because of differences with them or protecting their own corruption etc.we have sometimes to look deeper than just listen to the media,again talking general not about Boixis
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They are bad guys. Death threats, fascism and everything else said before aren't enough for you? Ultras are violent, they have always been.

You should also read this: http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/dec/01/death-jimmy-romero-spanish-football-violence
 
Barcaman

Barcaman

Administrator
Staff member
Guardian is leftist magazine and of course they're gonna frown upon anything that sounds right-wing. Not saying they are wrong, merely to be wary of the source when this is topic.
 
SeloBarca

SeloBarca

Senior Member
Serving the club since 1978, only to be called into Zubis office and fired without explanation. Our board has such class.
 
Kohe321

Kohe321

New member
Flavia said:
Chema Corbella's farewell letter: http://www.sport.es/es/noticias/barca/emotiva-carta-despedida-chema-corbella-3750414
In castellano, should surface in english soon. Really sad to read. And he described zubinepto was a cold man. Not surprising.
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Poor guy. Why did they feel the need to fire him exactly? Seems like no rhyme or reason to it, other than just changing things for the sake of it to leave a mark on the club from their reign. More Barca tradition ripped away just for the sake of doing it.
 
J

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Kohe321 said:
Poor guy. Why did they feel the need to fire him exactly? Seems like no rhyme or reason to it, other than just changing things for the sake of it to leave a mark on the club from their reign. More Barca tradition ripped away just for the sake of doing it.
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He wasnt fired.

At the time the explanation given was that Lucho wanted to freshen up the dressing room a bit as it was an environment the players had become too comfortable in.

He was offered early retirement or a new job in the club on the same wages.
 
F

frog-fcb

Senior Member
JamDav1982 said:
He wasnt fired.

At the time the explanation given was that Lucho wanted to freshen up the dressing room a bit as it was an environment the players had become too comfortable in.

He was offered early retirement or a new job in the club on the same wages.
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Wonder if it will be same excuse if they sell messi
 
F

Flavia

Guest
JamDav1982 said:
He wasnt fired.

At the time the explanation given was that Lucho wanted to freshen up the dressing room a bit as it was an environment the players had become too comfortable in.

He was offered early retirement or a new job in the club on the same wages.
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He was forced to retire, you mean. Without being given a proper reason. If you read the article, Lucho is never mentioned. That reason is your assumption, but it's not the real one.

I'm sure Chema knows who fired him.
 
J

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Flavia said:
He was forced to retire, you mean. Without being given a proper reason. If you read the article, Lucho is never mentioned. That reason is your assumption, but it's not the real one.

I'm sure Chema knows who fired him.
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There is a big difference from being fired to be given early retirement or another role within the club.

It was stated in the press at the time it was Luchos decision and some of the board were quite upset about it.

What is the reason you think he was 'fired' then?
 
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