Jude Bellingham

Maradona37

Maradona37

Well-known member
El Gato said:
Nah
Had season full of games. Shoulder been a problem at the start too when was powering through it banging them in at ease. Normal to be a bit beaten up towards the end of it and then feel fresher in first game back. Not a surprise he'd have been bothered by it and feels less stiff now. Will see if it comes back to bite him this yr if opts to leave it for several months to a year to get it sorted
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Of course. Very convenient.
 
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Maradona37

Maradona37

Well-known member
vegitot said:
Well for now, he seems to be more consistent at club level than Zidane.
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That's true and you make a good point.

But it's a bit different, a different era.

Bellingham has been primed for stardom since he was a kid, he's been trained to be this top player on and off the pitch.

Zidane on the other hand played at a time when there was little PR, no internet, and when he was coming through received no hype. He had to go the long way round in his career and peaked later, like a Salah did for example (lesser level of player is Salah, yes).

Of course, that doesn't excuse Zidane being a better big-game player than small-game player when he went to RM (and arguably even at Juve) and was a superstar.

I am just saying Zidane is like a wrestler who paid his dues, whereas Bellingham is like the kid who had everything fall into his lap since being young. If Zidane was a youngster in this era he'd be at Real Madrid aged 20 too.
 
Rassvet

Rassvet

Well-known member
Bellingham convo follows the midwit meme. To casuals he’s goals and aura, the middle is pseudo intellectuals who discredit him for being English and not being silky or elegant enough.

Then the right is people who understand he’s very decisive and an elite player.
 
Fati_Future_BallonDor

Fati_Future_BallonDor

Well-known member
Maradona37 said:
Very long post coming up.

Never denied he is a great output player. I AM NOT SAYING HE ISN'T A QUALITY PLAYER AT WHAT HE DOES.


I am not saying he's not effective, or that he won't get goals and assists.

My point is he's like Haaland, or latter-day Ronaldo. He gets you big 'moments' but he's often a liability throughout the other parts of the match, and disappears for long spells. Guys come on drooling about his assist (see CL Final) ignoring his no-show (and his team-mates) for the rest of the game is partly why Dortmund were able to create chances and on another night could have been in the lead. These guys cannot think hypothetically. It will come back to bite RM at some point. Their supernatural ability to finish every chance in a big game will run out.

That's just not my type of player. I like guys like Xavi, Iniesta, Modric, Ribery, Messi, Kroos just to name some. These guys won't go crazy on the stats sheet (other than Messi), but they have an ability to pass the eye test, they're better to watch, and they're proper footballers.

The two named above and Bellingham are more like glorified athletes and physical specimens than footballers. They will score plenty of goals and win trophies, but they lean into athleticism more to do it. When you compare Ronaldo to Messi, or Bellingham to Zidane, or Haaland to Romario, or Bruno Fernandes to Maradona, or even Bale to Hazard, you can see that the first guys maybe get better stats. But the point I am making is that they don't affect the game in the non-statistical parts. They're more likely to lose the ball in a good area, or guys like Xavi and Ribery are more likely to do something that doesn't show up in the stats but is a real positive contribution in the game and leads to a chance or a goal.

Now of course it is folly to say these guys aren't good players just because they are mostly 'output players'. That can win you points. But I think there's a reason why Ronaldo's international record is bad in knockout games of big tournaments (and why he's invisible in most big CL Finals), why Haaland's big-game record is terrible, why Fernandes is generally mediocre in big games, why Bellingham generally disappeared at the end of the season and in the Euros.

That reason for me is that their sheer output and physical dominance is much more prevalent against teams that are weaker than them, and in games where they get more space (yes smaller teams can give more space too). Against big teams that press them relentlessly and can match their athleticism AND are superior technically, it's much harder for them.

I just think that - of course these guys are good and in some cases great players. But there's something missing from them as footballers - the genius gene I call it. Zidane, Iniesta, Messi, Pele, Maradona, Neymar etc all have or had it. These guys don't. They don't have a natural affinity with a football and they don't look like they were born to play the game - they look like trained, manufactured athletes.

The thing about the biggest stats guys not being the best players in the team is something you'll know if you played football. I have played football and there were plenty of us supplying a guy up front and he just poached and got most of the goals. Now the stats sheet tells you he's the superstar but watching the games tells a different story.

It's the same principle at an infinitely higher level. Idiots were enraged Modric got BD over Ronaldo and compared them on stats, totally overlooking that Modric isn't a stats footballer.

Point is people are obsessed with the 'output' you refer to there, to the detriment of all else. It's become a thing in this era that all people care about is goals and assists and 'end product players'. I blame the rise of the internet and the growing influence of American sports in football.
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Imo you focus too much on aspects which ham doesnt have, the guys who mentioned were terrific in their strenghts and pure entertainment

but guys like Xavi, Kroos, Modric have completely different roles, it makes no sense to compare them with ham who cant control the game like these players but these guys cant have the same output like ham so different profiles

Haaland was great in his first season, he is a pure goal scorer but ham is also good in playing assists

i said a few weeks ago ham isnt a player where i would say 'i love to see this man playing'

thats why i 'only' praise his output which is on a very good level, you underrate this aspect in football, without goals/assists = no win

if ppl would put him GOAT-debate i can understand if you say he cant do what these guys have done but nobody is doing that, we just say his output is top
 
Maradona37

Maradona37

Well-known member
Fati_Future_BallonDor said:
Imo you focus too much on aspects which ham doesnt have, the guys who mentioned were terrific in their strenghts and pure entertainment

but guys like Xavi, Kroos, Modric have completely different roles, it makes no sense to compare them with ham who cant control the game like these players but these guys cant have the same output like ham so different profiles

Haaland was great in his first season, he is a pure goal scorer but ham is also good in playing assists

i said a few weeks ago ham isnt a player where i would say 'i love to see this man playing'

thats why i 'only' praise his output which is on a very good level, you underrate this aspect in football, without goals/assists = no win

if ppl would put him GOAT-debate i can understand if you say he cant do what these guys have done but nobody is doing that, we just say his output is top
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Fair enough - good post.
 
Horatio

Horatio

You're welcome
Rassvet said:
Bellingham convo follows the midwit meme. To casuals he’s goals and aura, the middle is pseudo intellectuals who discredit him for being English and not being silky or elegant enough.

Then the right is people who understand he’s very decisive and an elite player.
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It’s clear as water you stole this comment from somewhere else, nevertheless good post.
 
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