Juventus

ejuventus

New member
Vucinic should be off (fever) for 1st leg against Bayern......that makes Conte give up the idea to play a 3-5-1-1, inserting Pogba at the place of the second forward.
Mirko is the only to have the skills to play the role of unique forward.

So, we're going to play the usual 352, with Matri-Quagliarella as forwards
 

Barcaman

Administrator
Staff member
I think you are better off. Bayern will try to dominate and attack and it's better you have another fast man on the counter instead of Vucinic.
 

ejuventus

New member
I think you are better off. Bayern will try to dominate and attack and it's better you have another fast man on the counter instead of Vucinic.

I'm hesitant about that: I like both options.

On the one hand, I've always liked formation with 1 forward and lots of attacking midfielders (something rare at Juve), specially for this kind of match.
On the other hand, I agree with you, and it might result very useful to have two forwards as referement the counter.
 

Barcaman

Administrator
Staff member
I am no fan of Matri though and would like to see Giovinco (if he survived that Cambiasso challenge?).
 

Andrew M

New member
I wonder if people should revise their opinion of Juve and Italian football after seeing Bayern go ape shit on us? Juve lost only 2 - 0.

I think the general impression was that Italian football was way behind Liga, PL and Bundesliga, but I am not so sure now.
 

XaviMessiGirl

New member
The problem with Italian football at the moment is that financially, they can't compete with the big clubs in other countries. It's getting harder to attract big foreign names to Serie A & the ones that were already there are being bought out (even some young Italians like Verratti now are leaving, so can't even necessarily depend on domestic players anymore). I remember Conte said after being eliminated from the CL that an Italian club will never win the CL again until this money problem is solved & that's probably not that far fetched.

Look at some of the signings the big Italian clubs made this past season, some of them wouldn't even get a sniff of the bench at any of these clubs a few years ago. Then look at the list of good and/or promising players that have left Serie A in the past couple years: Ibra, Thiago Silva, Verratti, Pastore, Lavezzi (notice the pattern...) Also, the fact that some club legends are no longer retiring at their club, likely because their club can't afford to pay their wages anymore (Del Piero for Juve, most of the Milan senatori). Unfortunate that modern football is all about your pocket book, rather than history & prestige of your club.

But yeah, I agree that Bayern would probably run over any club right now, after yesterday juventini shouldn't feel so bad anymore.
 

Andrew M

New member
The problem with Italian football at the moment is that financially, they can't compete with the big clubs in other countries. It's getting harder to attract big foreign names to Serie A & the ones that were already there are being bought out (even some young Italians like Verratti now are leaving, so can't even necessarily depend on domestic players anymore). I remember Conte said after being eliminated from the CL that an Italian club will never win the CL again until this money problem is solved & that's probably not that far fetched.

Look at some of the signings the big Italian clubs made this past season, some of them wouldn't even get a sniff of the bench at any of these clubs a few years ago. Then look at the list of good and/or promising players that have left Serie A in the past couple years: Ibra, Thiago Silva, Verratti, Pastore, Lavezzi (notice the pattern...) Also, the fact that some club legends are no longer retiring at their club, likely because their club can't afford to pay their wages anymore (Del Piero for Juve, most of the Milan senatori). Unfortunate that modern football is all about your pocket book, rather than history & prestige of your club.

But yeah, I agree that Bayern would probably run over any club right now, after yesterday juventini shouldn't feel so bad anymore.

Of course, Italian is suffering economically these days. You say, though, that nowadays it is all about money, but has that not always been the case? Transfer fees are very inflated now, but money has always talked.

I think one thing that Italian football needs to improve is its stadium situation. Germany, as they are in politics, economics and many other things in Europe, is leading the way here.
 

XaviMessiGirl

New member
Sure, money has always played a factor, but not to this extent. With all the oil money, or owners who don't care about going into debt.

And yeah, right now Juve is the only club who owns their own stadio, all the others are owned by the city. There are talks of Inter building their own stadium as well under Chinese investment, would certainly be a good source of revenue once completed but it will also be a shame to leave all the history of the Meazza behind.
 

Andrew M

New member
Sure, money has always played a factor, but not to this extent. With all the oil money, or owners who don't care about going into debt.

And yeah, right now Juve is the only club who owns their own stadio, all the others are owned by the city. There are talks of Inter building their own stadium as well under Chinese investment, would certainly be a good source of revenue once completed but it will also be a shame to leave all the history of the Meazza behind.


History doesn't mean much if there is no future
 

XaviMessiGirl

New member
Well, it's definitely true that in this day you have to move forward or get left behind, was just commenting that it's unfortunate that certain things have become "the way forward".
 

AnfieldEd

I am Leg End
Only came across this now found it interesting so thought I'd post it.

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Arrigo Sacchi: "Bayern Munich: A Lesson of Total Football to Juventus."

15 April 2013

Former AC Milan, Parma, Atletico Madrid and Azzurri manager, Arrigo Sacchi, wrote an intriguing and detailed analysis about the recent Bayern Munich elimination of Juventus in the Champions League (aggregate of 4-0 for the Germans).

Mr. Sacchi made incisive comments not only about this particular Champions League tie, but also, how Italian football needed to change. He felt that the Germans presented Juventus individually, and Italian football collectively, with a much-needed lesson in total football.

Let's see what Mr. Sacchi had to say.

Discussion Items
* On a lesson of total football that focuses on the collective.
* On how Bayern Munich had 11 who play total football; Juventus, six or seven.
* On how the first line of defense for the Germans was their attackers.
* On the defensive shortcomings of Juventus.
* On how Bayern Munich exploited both the offensive and defensive phases.
* On the common thread of the great teams from the last 30 to 40 years (Ajax, Liverpool, Milan and Barcelona).

"Bayern Munich won. The best team won. The Germans gave a lesson in total football and like 30 years ago, it will be highlighted by few. Generally, it will be said that they have physicality and superior individual qualities without taking into account the work to obtain these feats.

On Wednesday (10 April), the collective interpretation of 11 players all functioning in a system of play based on their value won out. In a collaborative effort so well inclined. Bayern faced Juventus, perhaps the only Italian team with the national team players of Cesare Prandelli and Devis Mangia (U-21 manager) and few others, who are trying to escape our conservatism. Antonio Conte is doing a great job and this lesson will help his players to grow ultimately."

"They say that it will be fundamental to improve individual qualities. I think that ahead of everything, it will be important to find 11 functioning footballers in total football. Today, Juventus doesn't have more than six or seven. These are sufficient enough to win in Italy where football is mostly interpreted in a individualized, prudent, specialist way and doesn't involve more than four or five players.

The difference between the Bavarians and Juventus was the conscious of the collective. A difficult value in a country such as ours that is primarily individualistic. Then, players who are characterized as team players, know how to manage an offensive and defensive phase. (Mandzukic cost 10 to 12 million euro and wasn't a specialist, but in Italy they look for players who make magical plays. Not those who interpret the play.)"

"The attackers of Bayern, when they didn't have the ball, were their first defenders. Can you say the same of the Juventus players? Think how much that limited the play of Juventus and exalted their opponents. The difference is that in total football, you defend by running ahead applying your own rhythms and personality. While in Italian football, you run behind creating a defensive density and leave the initiative and play to others. Pressing and collaboration have made the difference and amplified solutions and individual qualities by withering those of your rivals. But to carry out all that can happen in a set-up that involves all 11 athletes."

"In areas with the ball, you need to attack the opponent at the right time and at the same time while coverage must come from your teammates who are farther away. Juventus played a pure defensive style but used double teaming, collapsing down (too far away and not compact), and the times of pressing and involvement of everyone was not optimal.

During ball possession, Heynckes' men were close to the football with players who were always moving and covering up. Others you saw up front and some were supporting on the flanks. This helped out the solutions and facilitated the technical aspect. Very few long passes into space, many very-low passes (grassburners), a compact side, organic, harmonious, who took advantage of the whole width of the pitch during the offensive phase while in the defensive phase, everyone was compact and close together."

"Organization and compactness are the fruits of a great effort and a conscious of everything that is footballing knowledge. It's evident that in positive and prospective situations such as these, everyone expressed and exalted themselves.

The great teams who made history in the last 30 to 40 years were those who interpreted this splendid sport by taking full advantage of the concepts of total football (Ajax, Liverpool, AC Milan and Barcelona). We, unfortunately, mostly have remained an episodic, prudent and specialized small kick: A football that does not appreciate techniques and being a protagonist. Juventus is our hope for a better future."
--- Arrigo Sacchi
 

FCBarca

Mike the Knife
They had a great team this season, very pleasing on the eye...Easily the most entertaining Italian side in more than a few seasons
 
A

Athletic

Guest
"IMO Juventus is just at the same level with Swansea, nothing more than a midtable team if they join EPL."
 

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