You are moving the bar. From top4 to actually challenging.
La Liga | Round 3: FC Barcelona - Getafe 2-1
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You are moving the bar. From top4 to actually challenging.
ajnotkeith
Senior Member
We were a distant 3rd last season. Now with our squad adding another year to the clock, Messi leaving and no real reinforcements, I think it will be difficult to make top4 and especially if we start that CB pairing so I stand by what I said. I hope I am wrong but I can't see it going right.
We were only 2 pts ahead of Sevilla last season, making 3rd/4th this year will be an achievement with Koeman and this squad
Birdy
Senior Member
OK, I completely disagree with everything you wrote above, but you deserve a reply since you post properly and with arguments.
Barca had Busquets and Raki who were far better passers than all of Fabinho, Hendo, Milner, and Winaldum. Yet their passing ability was waisted.
Why? Because they didn't have time on the ball
You can never find path through high press when you do things a X intensity and speed, and your opponent does it at 2x.
This can be anything from passing, to dribbling, to faking, and of course to running with/without the ball.
That's a law that applies not only to football, but any sport.
It's something you need to start thinking about, because it underpins most of your false assessments of games and players
But seeing and 'being allowed to pass' are not identical.
And the reason is what I wrote above.
Busi was non-existent in this game, because he could not play his game.
He was completely overwhelmed by Bilbao's intensity, as were of course most of our players.
One is having very big and unchallenged possession, and circulate the ball as much as wanted (what Pep does)
the Other is being stationed at the opponent's half by effective counter-pressing (the Klopp way)
I assume you mean the first.
But, it's easily said than done, when you can't cope with intensity
-Being open to counters does not necessitate giving away possession.
Bilbao did not want to have more of the ball, they had only 42% but were deadly when stealing it from our slow CBs
-But then, your point shows you think it's Barca's choice to allow counters.
It is not. They just couldn't answer to what Bilbao was doing to them.
That's something you want. What's the point of a team full of Pedros that the opponent knows how to nullify and becomes extremely predictable afterwards?
Besides, Iniesta Xavi and Messi were such players. Their movement was entirely unpredictable...
Busi Pique are finished due to age, and no team can be built on them, while Garcia is not of the quality needed.
But let's assume the first two were in their prime. Would you build a team around them?
Would you build a team around Busi in particular? Never in 2021! Football is different from 2011
Of course he can still be useful, but only in specific settings (like when facing deep parked blocks that do not seek to press, and you need someone to thread passes through the lines for instance) and never against the top teams of the time who are all based on intensity
The solution is similar or more intensity across all aspects: dribbling, faking, passing, evading pressure, counter-pressing
most importantly carrying the ball forward and not just static passing.
One of the best, if not the best game, of last season of this team was away to PSG.
The standout trait of the game was that PSG could not cope with Barca's intensity in pressing, while on the other hand they could not press us effectively because we were doing things at same or higher intensity than them,
plus we had De Jong at Libero, who cannot be pressed as he always carries the ball breaking the line of pressure.
That's why De Jong is so important to this team. But alone he is not enough.
Remember the 4-0 at Anfield?
Barca had Busquets and Raki who were far better passers than all of Fabinho, Hendo, Milner, and Winaldum. Yet their passing ability was waisted.
Why? Because they didn't have time on the ball
You can never find path through high press when you do things a X intensity and speed, and your opponent does it at 2x.
This can be anything from passing, to dribbling, to faking, and of course to running with/without the ball.
That's a law that applies not only to football, but any sport.
It's something you need to start thinking about, because it underpins most of your false assessments of games and players
I don't think anyone here argued against that.
But seeing and 'being allowed to pass' are not identical.
And the reason is what I wrote above.
Busi was non-existent in this game, because he could not play his game.
He was completely overwhelmed by Bilbao's intensity, as were of course most of our players.
There are 2 ways to control a game, which always go through controlling the tempo:
One is having very big and unchallenged possession, and circulate the ball as much as wanted (what Pep does)
the Other is being stationed at the opponent's half by effective counter-pressing (the Klopp way)
I assume you mean the first.
But, it's easily said than done, when you can't cope with intensity
-Being open to counters does not necessitate giving away possession.
Bilbao did not want to have more of the ball, they had only 42% but were deadly when stealing it from our slow CBs
-But then, your point shows you think it's Barca's choice to allow counters.
It is not. They just couldn't answer to what Bilbao was doing to them.
Depay and Dembele can decide game on their win, can win you a game with a screamer out of nowhere.
That's something you want. What's the point of a team full of Pedros that the opponent knows how to nullify and becomes extremely predictable afterwards?
Besides, Iniesta Xavi and Messi were such players. Their movement was entirely unpredictable...
Busi Pique are finished due to age, and no team can be built on them, while Garcia is not of the quality needed.
But let's assume the first two were in their prime. Would you build a team around them?
Would you build a team around Busi in particular? Never in 2021! Football is different from 2011
Of course he can still be useful, but only in specific settings (like when facing deep parked blocks that do not seek to press, and you need someone to thread passes through the lines for instance) and never against the top teams of the time who are all based on intensity
The solution to high intensity and pressing is not a simple 'ball over the top'. For this to happen you need a few players, or even the GK (like Ederson at City), with time on the ball.
The solution is similar or more intensity across all aspects: dribbling, faking, passing, evading pressure, counter-pressing
most importantly carrying the ball forward and not just static passing.
One of the best, if not the best game, of last season of this team was away to PSG.
The standout trait of the game was that PSG could not cope with Barca's intensity in pressing, while on the other hand they could not press us effectively because we were doing things at same or higher intensity than them,
plus we had De Jong at Libero, who cannot be pressed as he always carries the ball breaking the line of pressure.
That's why De Jong is so important to this team. But alone he is not enough.
Last edited:
Bobo32
Senior Member
I am a bit tired and a bit drunk, but I will answer now anyways. If I miss replying to something you can let me know.
There are multiple ways of controlling parts of the game, I'd agree Barcelona and Liverpool have used 2 major ways of doing so. Liverpool got 68p last year and Barcelona got 79p, so less extreme strategies were more succesful last year...
I don't agree that "football is different to 2011", it's the same game and you can still be very succesful by controlling the ball, but you need to know what you are doing. Barcelonas squad has been built up half-heartedly, and the coach is incompetent. You can't control the ball with Depay, Griezmann and Braithwaite, and Pedri and de Jong aren't well educated or guided, they do have potential though.
Pedro decided a CL final through good movement, he was a clear starter for the best team there ever was. He is of infinitely more use to a good team than Depay or Dembele, who never decided a final or ever will.
Xavi was the most predictable player I ever saw. He always found the obvious solution. You think I brag or pretend by saying so, but it's very hard to find the good option on the pitch but very easy to do so from the TV, it's very surprising that people here see Xavi as some unpredictable genius when his greatest vice was that he was so predictably good at finding the right progression. (yes once or twice a game at the most he did something unpredictable and great, too, but that was 1 or 2 times out of 120)
Iniesta was allowed to be more free, but in his movement he was extremely well taught, he was to quote Dylan good "not for what he did but for what he did not" most of the time.
Yes I have said de Jong should play as a defender.
Football is very much decided on where you lose the ball and where you gain possession of the ball. Barcelona have lost the ball in the wrong spots for very long, and they have failed to make use of winning the ball too. They have an opportunity now to be more forceful in the press, and to be more conservative with the ball too. These things go hand in hand.
serghei
Senior Member
A nutless monkey could make top 4 with Barca in La Liga. Atletico and this Real are nothing special. If Madrid sign Mbappe, then yes, they will be a level above. Until then, no. Struggled vs both Bets and Levante.
We need to challenge domestically without a doubt.
Fati_Future_BallonDor
Well-known member
If we would live in 2013-2016 then we would have probably no chance for la liga title but now atletico and real are also weak and i wouldnt put them above us. The la liga title will not won by the strongest team, but by the least weakest
soul24rage
Senior Member
let's gooo
KingLeo10
Senior Member
I've never seen someone who's ruined their "legacy" worse than Busquets. He's undone all of the great work from 2008-2015 by turning in progressively shameless disasterclasses since 2016. 6 years and this man is still allowed to terrorize Barcelona with a guaranteed starting spot.
I legit might stop watching us play till he's taken out of the starting 11.
I legit might stop watching us play till he's taken out of the starting 11.
raedkuwait
Senior Member
Yessss finally ter shit is back, let the fun
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