Leon Goretzka

[raskolnikov]

That's not up to Schalke to decide. You can't just force players to accept your contract offers.

Then he goes to the reserves for a year and gets to be a ballboy for a year. Its not that difficult when you have 3 options.
You need to have a tough approach to beat Bayern. Otherwise they walk all over you, tap up your players abd sign them on a free and trash you 5-0 next season.

 

[Yannik]

Then he goes to the reserves for a year and gets to be a ballboy for a year. Its not that difficult when you have 3 options.

yeah let's force players to sign contracts by benching them. Who doesn't do that right? Not like Goretzka is even needed at Schalke or is their entry ticket to CL. I suppose future players all want to sign for them aswell then. Makes perfect sense, hence why it happens so often in football.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Then he should have renewed last summer.

Well, you can't. Players are not slaves, they have the right to choose to extend their contract or not, just like the clubs.

Certainly the clubs can bench them for a whole season like you said in theory but very few clubs out there could afford to do that and would be willing to do that. To the caring fans it is a matter of losing face, to the clubs it is a matter of business, especially if those clubs have no interest in competing or becoming one of the big clubs.

 

[raskolnikov]

yeah let's force players to sign contracts by benching them. Who doesn't do that right? Not like Goretzka is even needed at Schalke or is their entry ticket to CL. I suppose future players all want to sign for them aswell then. Makes perfect sense, hence why it happens so often in football.

Its not like its anywhere like bundesliga where the whole competition is Bayerns academy.
If you implement it now it seems ujust and unrealistic but if you take the stance as an anti bayern club it will be clear as hell within 5 years.
Players might not join but those who do know the deal. In the long run it wint matter. No player is above the club mentality + mission to overthrow bayern, follow the 3 steps earlier mentioned and you will accomplish more in the long run (20 years) than what they are currently doing. Do nothing, nothing will change.

 

[Yannik]

Its not like its anywhere like bundesliga where the whole competition is Bayerns academy.
If you implement it now it seems ujust and unrealistic but if you take the stance as an anti bayern club it will be clear as hell within 5 years.
Players might not join but those who do know the deal. In the long run it wint matter. No player is above the club mentality + mission to overthrow bayern, follow the 3 steps earlier mentioned and you will accomplish more in the long run (20 years) than what they are currently doing. Do nothing, nothing will change.

name one club that follows your "3 steps" and regularly benches players because they don't want to sign contract extensions.

 

[raskolnikov]

Well, you can't. Players are not slaves, they have the right to choose to extend their contract or not, just like the clubs.

Certainly the clubs can bench them for a whole season like you said in theory but very few clubs out there could afford to do that and would be willing to do that. To the caring fans it is a matter of losing face, to the clubs it is a matter of business, especially if those clubs have no interest in competing or becoming one of the big clubs.

Its not a loss of money in the long run. Yes you can lose out on a cl spot now but a solid rivalry with bayern, media and sponsors that come with it will generate enough income. Bundesliga teams cant have investments bar the likes of leipzig, wolfsburg, hoffenheim and Bayer. Scouting needs to be on point. Allow players dream transfers to any club but Bayern (eg Denbele to us). You can get the money for sure. In the end Bayern will be forced to spend to keep up internationally since they cant fish in the bundesliga for free anymore.

If you think long term. What other options do these vlubs have. Would you rather have your club suffer a little now but be strong in the long run or continue in mediocrity like this and be raided once a talent breaks trough? If it was Barca in Dortmunds position I would definitly prefer it.

 

[raskolnikov]

name one club that follows your "3 steps" and regularly benches players because they don't want to sign contract extensions.

Bilbao sort of? There doesnt have to be a precedent though. The situation is unique since there are no clubs in top 5/6 leagues with the same monopoly as Bayern. Maybe psg in time but not currently.
If you can think of another way where they can realisticaly grow without Bayern raiding them and continuing their strong hold on the league please share?

 

[Yannik]

Bilbao sort of? There doesnt have to be a precedent though. The situation is unique since there are no clubs in top 5/6 leagues with the same monopoly as Bayern. Maybe psg in time but not currently.
If you can think of another way where they can realisticaly grow without Bayern raiding them and continuing their strong hold on the league please share?

Bilbao wasn't doing that. Until 2 years Bilbao was just trying to raise release clauses by having clubs pay tax to it. Players still left them on a yearly base when big clubs came knocking. Also Bilbao is a unique case that does not care about fees because their spending is not limited by money, but by the small pool of players they can choose from.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Its not a loss of money in the long run. Yes you can lose out on a cl spot now but a solid rivalry with bayern, media and sponsors that come with it will generate enough income. Bundesliga teams cant have investments bar the likes of leipzig, wolfsburg, hoffenheim and Bayer. Scouting needs to be on point. Allow players dream transfers to any club but Bayern (eg Denbele to us). You can get the money for sure. In the end Bayern will be forced to spend to keep up internationally since they cant fish in the bundesliga for free anymore.

If you think long term. What other options do these vlubs have. Would you rather have your club suffer a little now but be strong in the long run or continue in mediocrity like this and be raided once a talent breaks trough? If it was Barca in Dortmunds position I would definitly prefer it.

What if the German clubs simply just don't care? What if they don't care about Bayern dominating the league? What if they don't aspire to compete with Bayern? Bundesliga has one of the best attendance in Europe and the world, fans enjoy watching their local teams compete even though they know they might not win the league. They probably have no problem playing second fiddle to Bayern, as long as they keep their fans happy.

And if you institute an anti-Bayern clause, you seriously risk not having some of the best German talent coming to you. Imagine all other La Liga teams had an anti-Barca and anti-RM clause, that would turn off so many players. The fact is most German talent do want to go to Bayern. How do you compete with Bayern? You run a good business, be prudent, don't fuck up like BVB did before, try your best to play good football...

If I were the head of Bundesliga I'd worry about promoting Bundesliga to overseas audience as the lack of competition does turn people away. They are the ones who should be worried.

 

[Yannik]

And if you institute an anti-Bayern clause, you seriously risk not having some of the best German talent coming to you. Imagine all other La Liga teams had an anti-Barca and anti-RM clause, that would turn off so many players. The fact is most German talent do want to go to Bayern. How do you compete with Bayern? You run a good business, be prudent, don't fuck up like BVB did before, try your best to play good football...

The main point to take away from this is that a club would beforemost anything else cripple themselves completely before they cripple Bayern only slightly. And you'd then need all 17 clubs to fuck themsleves in the knee to actually have a big impact. You can critisize Dortmund for letting players go, yet they still attract top talents that everyone in Europe wants because those players know that it's a good envronment to develope in. If Dortmund had a reputation of being a shitty employee, then Dembélé for example would have probably not joined them and Dortmund wouldn't have 150m to spend in 2 windows now. They also got talents such as Isak and Sancho, who were aswell wanted by everyone. Not being a dick does also pay off.

 

[raskolnikov]

What if the German clubs simply just don't care? What if they don't care about Bayern dominating the league? What if they don't aspire to compete with Bayern? Bundesliga has one of the best attendance in Europe and the world, fans enjoy watching their local teams compete even though they know they might not win the league. They probably have no problem playing second fiddle to Bayern, as long as they keep their fans happy.

And if you institute an anti-Bayern clause, you seriously risk not having some of the best German talent coming to you. Imagine all other La Liga teams had an anti-Barca and anti-RM clause, that would turn off so many players. The fact is most German talent do want to go to Bayern. How do you compete with Bayern? You run a good business, be prudent, don't fuck up like BVB did before, try your best to play good football...

If I were the head of Bundesliga I'd worry about promoting Bundesliga to overseas audience as the lack of competition does turn people away. They are the ones who should be worried.

Then they lack ambition and their fans need to shut up and just take pride in developing players for Bayern.

If players dont join thet dont. Then you scut abroad more. Eventually tge rivalry will elevate you to #2 teAm destined to overthrow Bayern. Kids in 20 years will like your club as much as they do Bayern. Anybody who joins knows the deal and is ready to face the consequences.

 

[Luftstalag14]

The main point to take away from this is that a club would beforemost anything else cripple themselves completely before they cripple Bayern only slightly. And you'd then need all 17 clubs to fuck themsleves in the knee to actually have a big impact. You can critisize Dortmund for letting players go, yet they still attract top talents that everyone in Europe wants because those players know that it's a good envronment to develope in. If Dortmund had a reputation of being a shitty employee, then Dembélé for example would have probably not joined them and Dortmund wouldn't have 150m to spend in 2 windows now. They also got talents such as Isak and Sancho, who were aswell wanted by everyone. Not being a dick does also pay off.

Agreed, it will take all of the other 17 clubs to act in unison to create any real affect and in the end they will only cripple themselves and the league, making Bayern further ahead (Those German talent that want to go to Bayern but could not because of the anti-Bayern would go overseas, the quality of Bundesliga will drop and Bayern's dominance will just be stronger).

If I were the owner of a German team I don't care about competing with Bayern since it is not realistic at all, I will probably just be happy finding and developing talent that I know I will be able to sell to either Bayern or foreign clubs for a big profit, which I can use to buy more players. I know my place.

As to BVB, I think most foreign players use them as a springboard for something bigger and greater, unfortunately.

 

[raskolnikov]

The main point to take away from this is that a club would beforemost anything else cripple themselves completely before they cripple Bayern only slightly. And you'd then need all 17 clubs to fuck themsleves in the knee to actually have a big impact. You can critisize Dortmund for letting players go, yet they still attract top talents that everyone in Europe wants because those players know that it's a good envronment to develope in. If Dortmund had a reputation of being a shitty employee, then Dembélé for example would have probably not joined them and Dortmund wouldn't have 150m to spend in 2 windows now. They also got talents such as Isak and Sancho, who were aswell wanted by everyone. Not being a dick does also pay off.

Denbele would still join if he cabt join Bayern. Its the national talent that would care. And the likes that wont join because of it you would not want anyway. You just filter out the potential traitors early. Sure it hurts initially but you take a step back to jump forward a few rather than be stuck playing second fiddle. I wish a team would take that approach to see what would happen. Surely they wont be worse off since they could always get back to being Bayerns feeder rather than a competitor and the bundesliga would be more attractive. If they are fine the way they are that means they are just a company without ambitions and not worthy of supporting/following. The whole league is done at that point.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Then they lack ambition and their fans need to shut up and just take pride in developing players for Bayern.

If players dont join thet dont. Then you scut abroad more. Eventually tge rivalry will elevate you to #2 teAm destined to overthrow Bayern. Kids in 20 years will like your club as much as they do Bayern. Anybody who joins knows the deal and is ready to face the consequences.

They probably just bite the bullets like Sevilla, Valencia fans do in Spain. There is really not much they can do practically.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Denbele would still join if he cabt join Bayern. Its the national talent that would care. And the likes that wont join because of it you would not want anyway. You just filter out the potential traitors early. Sure it hurts initially but you take a step back to jump forward a few rather than be stuck playing second fiddle. I wish a team would take that approach to see what would happen. Surely they wont be worse off since they could always get back to being Bayerns feeder rather than a competitor and the bundesliga would be more attractive. If they are fine the way they are that means they are just a company without ambitions and not worthy of supporting/following. The whole league is done at that point.

It is simply the state of the business in football. There will always be feeder clubs in every league, not everyone can be the big fish. It is just that in Bundesliga there is only one big fish.