Lionel Messi - v7

[Batistuta9]

I think koeman will try and use Messi the same way tadic was used at Ajax during their CL run in 2019. Probably one of the reasons Schreuder is his assistant. For it to work well, fati, griezmann and coutinho will have to make a lot of runs and be the most advanced player is some situations, just like neres, ziyech and VDB did. It's early days but hopefully it works well.

 

[malvolio]

Koeman: "Martin does serve me. I'd like to have two players per position. Leo and Griezmann can play as '9', but they are not the type of forward as Martin is. We are looking for one more striker."

so not even koeman believes the messi at 9 theory. clearly it was a move related to available personnel, otherwise why would we be in the market for another striker besides braithwaite?

 

[JamDav1982]

Koeman: "Martin does serve me. I'd like to have two players per position. Leo and Griezmann can play as '9', but they are not the type of forward as Martin is. We are looking for one more striker."

so not even koeman believes the messi at 9 theory. clearly it was a move related to available personnel, otherwise why would we be in the market for another striker besides braithwaite?

Apart from part he does say Messi can play 9 but they clearly want different profiles of players as he is not a CF... neither are Braithwaite and Depay though really.

Where do you think Koeman sees Messi in this team if Depay signs?

 

[malvolio]

Apart from part he does say Messi can play 9 but they clearly want different profiles of players as he is not a CF... neither are Braithwaite and Depay though really.

Where do you think Koeman sees Messi in this team if Depay signs?

behind the striker at 10. or rw.

or maybe he is still experimenting and will change formation.

messi and griezman can play at 9, but they wouldn't be as effective. we already know that griezmann is terrible there.

 

[JamDav1982]

behind the striker at 10. or rw.

or maybe he is still experimenting and will change formation.

messi and griezman can play at 9, but they wouldn't be as effective. we already know that griezmann is terrible there.

Can see how pans out but I dont think Messi role will change much from last game other than someone like Depay who is seen as more of 9 as an option who can also play wide and exchange with Messi depending of situation in game.

 

[malvolio]

Can see how pans out but I dont think Messi role will change much from last game other than someone like Depay who is seen as more of 9 as an option who can also play wide and exchange with Messi depending of situation in game.

yeah, maybe switching with depay in-game would work better. even tough it's clear we'll have the same problem with depay being similar to messi and griezman.

 

[serghei]

Messi can't play 10, because it is a position that requires a lot of movement and workrate.

The CAM in 4-2-3-1 has to help the midfield a lot.

 

[Andrew M]

Messi can't play 10, because it is a position that requires a lot of movement and workrate.

The CAM in 4-2-3-1 has to help the midfield a lot.

Since when has the 10 position been known to work hard? It always used to be the most talented player would be there and get away with little work off the ball. It's partly why the position is antiquated

 

[serghei]

Since when has the 10 position been known to work hard? It always used to be the most talented player would be there and get away with little work off the ball. It's partly why the position is antiquated

Sure, by 10 I mean CAM mostly in this context. You're right, the "10" position is antiquated because of the increased defensive requirements in today's football. You can't afford to have a guy in upper midfield not helping out the midfield defensively.

 

[te amo barca]

Since when has the 10 position been known to work hard? It always used to be the most talented player would be there and get away with little work off the ball. It's partly why the position is antiquated

Since the 2010s mate. The 10 has come back lately but the players there have to be mobile (Muller, Fernandes, van de Beek). Players like Isco, Coutinho, Ozil, Gotze and so on have all struggled because of the increased need for workrate and defensive work. Gegenpressing changed the meta.

 

[Andrew M]

Sure, by 10 I mean CAM mostly in this context. You're right, the "10" position is antiquated because of the increased defensive requirements in today's football. You can't afford to have a guy in upper midfield not helping out the midfield defensively.

Yes exactly. A guy like Ozil comes to mind. Defensively useless and nowadays you just can't carry players like that.

 

[El Gato]

i don't understand this type of reasoning, so you want messi to play as most advanced player in 4231 when he never did this in all of his career?!

basically he has to turn into ronaldo when even ronaldo is not playing as the lone striker for his team.

he is way better then coutinho or griezmann at playing the 10 role and we shunt him up top to be a poacher.

this whole approach will fail miserably, resulting in him getting frustrated and dropping deep as a consequence.

He has played up top before.
Playing as a nominal #9 was done in 4-3-3 with Xaviesta dropping into #10 role at will with Messi as false striker and wingers making runs off him.

Doesn't have to be the most advanced. Just needs decent finishers coming in from the flanks. And would have that in Fati-Griez.

Yes exactly. A guy like Ozil comes to mind. Defensively useless and nowadays you just can't carry players like that.

+1

#10s are some of the laziest defensive contributors because pivotes are tanks who can do most of it on their own leaving #10s to focus on progressive work between opponents midfield and defense.

Since the 2010s mate. The 10 has come back lately but the players there have to be mobile (Muller, Fernandes, van de Beek). Players like Isco, Coutinho, Ozil, Gotze and so on have all struggled because of the increased need for workrate and defensive work. Gegenpressing changed the meta.

Not since 2010s. Since 2015 more like.

In any case, if you want Messi in a lineup, central position is the only place to have him. #10 or #9. Elsewise sell.

 

[raskolnikov]

Cant you create a current day system with an old school 10. Messi is perfect for that position.
Have the rest have high workrate.
Either that or ss/false 9.

 

[te amo barca]

i don't understand this type of reasoning, so you want messi to play as most advanced player in 4231 when he never did this in all of his career?!

basically he has to turn into ronaldo when even ronaldo is not playing as the lone striker for his team.

he is way better then coutinho or griezmann at playing the 10 role and we shunt him up top to be a poacher.

this whole approach will fail miserably, resulting in him getting frustrated and dropping deep as a consequence.

Messi doesn't move as a midfielder should.

 

[serghei]

Cant you create a current day system with an old school 10. Messi is perfect for that position.
Have the rest have high workrate.
Either that or ss/false 9.

I don't think so. Centrally you are too exposed with a "10" that walks off the ball. The "9" is too far away to provide midfield solidity when the ball is lost, even if you have a fast hard worker there. Especially since teams today seem to go on quick counters as fast as possible. Very few teams temporize the game to keep the ball when they win the ball centrally. When they recover, it's usually fast counter right away.

A fast "9" could only help and cover for a lazy "10" in cases of slower transitions from the other team. But against fast teams who break right away, you need a good work-rate player in the middle of the pitch in all areas.