Lionel Messi - v7

Rory

Senior Member
Yesterday?s game for Messi was actually an okay one. Plenty of others where he?s not been good enough. He gave a good chance to Braithwaite first half, he also provided the move that lead to the goal. If his name was Dembele and he ran 10mph quicker it would have been a circle jerk of how great he is based on that.

You can?t blame any of the attack yesterday. They were hamstrung by the defence creating a situation where they had to chase the game for the whole time and still we got a goal (even if flukey).
 

JohnN

Senior Member
We are 3 points from relegation and some would have you believe that if Messi didn't play we would be better of somehow.
Like one player makes us so worse than we could be.
Ok.
 

Birdy

Senior Member
We are 3 points from relegation and some would have you believe that if Messi didn't play we would be better of somehow.
Like one player makes us so worse than we could be.
Ok.

If you watched the easy 0-4 and 0-3 away wins in the CL against parked buses as well (especially Dynamo), you would know that it makes hell of a difference.
We have said it many times: in modern football you cannot survive without a structure and without 10 players pressing.
Plus, his 'intuitive' movements and inspiration with the ball are gone.

January is not soon enough for him to go
 

Toecrusher

New member
Its a mix of everything - physical and skill decline, not adapting to physical and skill decline, reduced motivation, messed up team formation, cucked teammates and coaches.

The facts are that regardless of who or what is to blame, we play better as a team without him.
 

i_bleed_blaugrana

Senior Member
If you watched the easy 0-4 and 0-3 away wins in the CL against parked buses as well (especially Dynamo), you would know that it makes hell of a difference.
We have said it many times: in modern football you cannot survive without a structure and without 10 players pressing.
Plus, his 'intuitive' movements and inspiration with the ball are gone.

January is not soon enough for him to go

I personally think it has less to do with him ?pressing? and more to do with having too many cooks in the kitchen to use a metaphor. I think it is becoming increasingly clear that him and Greiz struggle together on the pitch precisely because they operate in the same spaces. Last night, we threw Phil out there and then we had 3 players all trying to do the same thing and occupy the same spaces.

Koeman has to take the blame for this. Osasuna & the CL games demonstrated how much we need TRUE wingers like Ansu, Dembele and Trincao. We are never going to have the space we need if we do not have pace in behind their lines that stretches the space between the opponents defensive lines. And playing Greiz, Messi and Coutinho behind Martin gives you nothing in that regard.

The same thing with the pivots: I don?t understand why he still plays Busi and Frenkie when, again, they do the same things and like to occupy the same spaces. There is simply too much redundancy and it stifles our danger on the ball. This spells out my point rather succinctly:

https://twitter.com/barcacentre/status/1335525128868753408?s=21
 
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i_bleed_blaugrana

Senior Member
PS: Will someone PLEASE fucking change the settings for attaching photos, links, tweets etc. The new changes to the formatting for posts sucks fat dick when posting on mobiles and the glitch where ? come up for apostrophes needs to be fixed ASAP.
 

serghei

Senior Member
I personally think it has less to do with him ?pressing? and more to do with having too many cooks in the kitchen to use a metaphor. I think it is becoming increasingly clear that him and Greiz struggle together on the pitch precisely because they operate in the same spaces. Last night, we threw Phil out there and then we had 3 players all trying to do the same thing and occupy the same spaces.

Koeman has to take the blame for this. Osasuna & the CL games demonstrated how much we need TRUE wingers like Ansu, Dembele and Trincao. We are never going to have the space we need if we do not have pace in behind their lines that stretches the space between the opponents defensive lines. And playing Greiz, Messi and Coutinho behind Martin gives you nothing in that regard.

The same thing with the pivots: I don?t understand why he still plays Busi and Frenkie when, again, they do the same things and like to occupy the same spaces. There is simply too much redundancy and it stifles our danger on the ball. This spells out my point rather succinctly:

Agree. But lack of applied pressure when the possession is lost is also a big issue against a deep block.

So, when you play a deep "bus" so to speak, naturally, as a defending team, you win the ball back (when you do) very close to your 16m area. That's risky, and a big reason why parking the bus invites a lot of pressure in dangerous areas. So if the attacking team is intense and pushes up with an aggressive press, two of the following things usually happen: you either win the ball back and catch your opponent off position (since they expand by transitioning from defensive to attacking phase), or the defending team kicks it long to basically avoid bad give-aways due to pressure mounting. But if you do not apply pressure, they have enough time to orchestrate counters and punish you for committing too many men forward.

And that's what Cadiz did in the 2nd half. Very rarely were they forced to kick it long because we rarely pressed well. Usually, they just maneuvered the ball starting from deep and even created dangerous counters that could've ended in even more goals conceded for us.

So, the thing with too many cooks is true, but this is only a problem in our positional attacking phase. There are many more problems in more aspects of play, because a slow, low work-rate, lazy team brings bad things everywhere. Here, the lack of pressing and counter-pressing is making our transition game slow and ineffective. Fast transitions and efficient counter-pressing is exactly how you punish teams that defend too deep. That's why we're unable to exploit gaps in the opponent's line when they appear.

We are so bad at creating and exploiting space that we made a mediocre team like Cadiz look like 2010 Inter.
 
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Devils

Senior Member
They will offer him a pay raise at the expense of other dire needs. Openly saying "I will let Messi leave" is a suicidal move.

That is the sad state of some socis and fans in Barcelona and Catalonia. To many of them Messi is bigger than the club.

Hopefully once elected the new president will succumb to common sense.

Offer him a pay raise how? They are literally trying to cut wages by a few hundred million to avoid financial ruin.

Nobody can offer him a pay raise. This is common knowledge.
 

malvolio

Senior Member
We are 3 points from relegation and some would have you believe that if Messi didn't play we would be better of somehow.
Like one player makes us so worse than we could be.
Ok.

barcaforum logic 101:
- we play the first 3 CL games, 2 against shit teams, with messi on the field and win them all, qualifying in the process
- we play 2 more meaningless games, against the 2 shit teams, without messi on the field and win both. suddenly we are free from the tyrant and we play champagne football.

conclusion -> messi is holding us back and we would play much better without him. also, players like de jong, griezmann or braithwaite would be world beaters if not for messi being here.
 

vuji_31

Senior Member
Malvolio you are wrong

Barca without Messi destroyed dynamo and ferencvaros (shit teams) with 3-0 and 4-0.

With Messi at home against Dynamo almost lost because MATS was MOTM
 

The Observer

New member
barcaforum logic 101:
- we play the first 3 CL games, 2 against shit teams, with messi on the field and win them all, qualifying in the process
- we play 2 more meaningless games, against the 2 shit teams, without messi on the field and win both. suddenly we are free from the tyrant and we play champagne football.

conclusion -> messi is holding us back and we would play much better without him. also, players like de jong, griezmann or braithwaite would be world beaters if not for messi being here.

Barcaforum online futbol professor logic went from "anyone can win the league with Messi" to "Messi is holding Braithwaite back" in less than a year.

11 months ago Barca was comfortably top of the table for the 3rd year in a row. Thankfully we removed most of the cancer that held the team back in Valverde, Rakitic, Suarez and are reaping the rewards now with ... 3 points above relegation. :lol:

Only Messi's exit left now to unleash the full potential. Can't wait.
 

malvolio

Senior Member
Malvolio you are wrong

Barca without Messi destroyed dynamo and ferencvaros (shit teams) with 3-0 and 4-0.

With Messi at home against Dynamo almost lost because MATS was MOTM

yeah mate, "would have" or "almost" is the new reality. jesus christ, some of you are as dumb as a sack of potatoes. :lol:

fact is we beat those two shit teams and we also beat juve in their own stadium. if you want to see it as us being world beaters against farmers without messi, be my guest. but you would be living in a dream.
 

Gnidrologist

Senior Member
This is pointless bickering. Team is shit with or without Messi, but the difference is that Messi guarantees stagnation and impossibility to start rebuilding process. He can't be benched. He can't be told where and how to play and everyone has to suck his dick. I'd rather skip a CL or two so that we can get our shit together with new management and players than pandering to Messi and his dick suckers, including fake Barca fans that will thankfully fuck off from here when he's gone.
 

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