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No matter what they say, they won't be able to keep him. Unless he decides to stay, he can just walk away for free. The matter is in Messi's hands now.
Lionel Messi - v7
- Thread starter Barcaman
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No matter what they say, they won't be able to keep him. Unless he decides to stay, he can just walk away for free. The matter is in Messi's hands now.
Daniele
Member
FinBarcelonafan
Well-known member
Of course but my point was, whatever they want Messi to stay or leave, they will say they will try to keep him. Only way to get votes from old socios and Barca fans = keep Messi.. Fans are clueless and most likely future president.
Keeping Messi won't change anything for the future. If we were talking about 25 years old Messi, yes I would get this. Not 34 years old.
JohnN
Senior Member
So, as I said, fuck logic.
1. Whoever believes Messi currently is one of the top players and deserving of the paycheck he gets, is deluded. Saying so, diminishes the astonishing level he once had and his legacy.
2. That being said, calling Messi the WOAT right now is also deluded. He is still the best we have in our team in his role, under certain conditions.
3. Believing that a single player makes us so worse that we could be, to the point we have reached rock bottom is plain silly. We have 11 players on the field. Even with 10 of our players and a 13yo kid, we should be able to collect more points than this, given our budget and status compared to the other teams.
4. EV has been proven to be a mediocre coach. I am not saying he had everything going for him and he was the only culprit. But, he is to blame for certain things, especialy for letting the team degrade slowly over time.
The team is super incosistent. We make too many unforced errors in defense. We play with too many no.10s. We play our best players out of their comfort zone and we don't even have a stable starting eleven, due to many injuries and a really tight schedule.
Simple things can explain our situation without the need to scapegoat anyone.
serghei
Senior Member
I agree, but while Salah has more liberties than the other Liverpool attackers (especially Firmino who sacrifices a lot for the good of the team), his game and positioning are a lot more structured, cohesive, and disciplined than current Messi's.
This is to the credit of Klopp obviously, but also Salah. I see Salah as more similar to a 2009-2011 Messi combo in terms of his role on the field. Or 2014-2015 Messi. Meaning he respects his role and responsibilities as a RW, playing like a RW, but also has some positional freedoms that other players have to cover and supplement with quick positional adjustments. Players only know what to adjust if there is a clear tactical understanding why things happen on the pitch. Why Messi goes here at A moment, and why does he go there or keep position at B scenario. But when that lacks and it's the player that decides when or what, things get fucked up irreparably. Because nobody knows what to do, since there are no tactical signals that dictate where a player moves at a point in time.
So, free roles are free from the opponent's perspective, because they don't have access to the tactics of the side having the ball. For the team doing it, the free role is in fact a very complex and fluid set of rules and adjustments, with multiple variables that are shared and understood by everyone in the team, especially those around the areas of the ball (obvious things like player IQ are important because they allow players to assimilate these advanced tactics). All those variables and complex paths and movements are done to enhance the way a player can influence the game, only if the player is special and makes those complications be worth implementing. It's why Salah goes inside and vacates his position much more than Mane, with Mane playing more like a speedy classical winger. Or why Messi did it much more than Pedro, while playing the same RW position.
For me, current Messi doesn't have a structured "free role" like Salah. Because we didn't have a great manager for a long while, and because Messi's discipline on the field deteriorated a lot (among other things). You often see Messi dropping when there's no reason and no benefit to do so. While at Liverpool every move is dictated by a tactical purpose, and you see this unfolding as the play evolves. You see a space being opened for Arnold pushing up for example, and you see the midfielder - Arnold connection unfolding. At Barca, when Messi drops, it's 99% of the time to be passed to in a crap position. Watch how many times Salah triggers a move without being passed to.
This makes Messi a huge problem for: a) fast transitions, b) pressing-based first wave of defense, c) good ball-circulation and positioning. All 3 are near-impossible to do with Messi in the current free role.
The only thing Messi brings is superior passing and on-the-ball abilities. But if everything else around that deteriorates as a result of his game, what you get is 29 lost balls and almost no goals from open play in 10 games, regardless of the opponent.
It's no Coutinho for me as well. But also no Messi. Griezmann is by far the best option to play behind Braithwaite, because he is the only one who is fast, mobile, and hard-working enough to support the "9" properly. When Messi plays behind Braithwaite, he has so low presence in the box, that our central forward is 90% of the time super isolated. When Coutinho plays as a CAM - 2nd striker it's similar with Messi, with a bit better movement and work-rate (still poor compared with Griezmann), but worse on the ball in terms of decision-making and executions.
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BBZ8800
Senior Member
Not only that he is not the best, but Braith, Cou, Griezz and Fati are better than him in this moment.
If everyone were fit and if his name weren't Messi, he would be riding the bench.
Imagine a player in our team who has 1 goal from 20 shots, let's say Suarez.
Fans would burry him alive.
Yet Messi has 70 shots for 1 goal currently in 11 vs 11.
Seriously, do you think that any player had the worst shooting streak in a modern football history?
Messi is surely in a WOAT category shooting wise currently.
Fati_Future_BallonDor
Well-known member
WOAT sounds so funny 
Joan Laporta [Presidential Candidate] told SPORT: "We must make a proposal that can convince Leo that Barca will have a competitive team capable of winning Champions League again. This is critical, what will have the most value for Leo when deciding his future"
Please tell me how we're going to do that with no money to spend? Even if we sell players to generate funds, we're going to have to spend heavily to have a competitive team.
I don't understand their fascination with keeping Messi. I get he's a great player, but he'll be 34 next year. Not to mention, he's unhappy and doesn't want to be here. He's also going to want a big salary.... a salary we cannot afford. I have no doubt their only reason to keep Messi at this point is that he generates a lot of money for the club.
Then we have Font banging on about Xavi every interview he gives. A Xavi who barely has any managing experience. He's expected to turn us into a contender again with no money and no experience in a top league as a manager.
Please tell me how we're going to do that with no money to spend? Even if we sell players to generate funds, we're going to have to spend heavily to have a competitive team.
I don't understand their fascination with keeping Messi. I get he's a great player, but he'll be 34 next year. Not to mention, he's unhappy and doesn't want to be here. He's also going to want a big salary.... a salary we cannot afford. I have no doubt their only reason to keep Messi at this point is that he generates a lot of money for the club.
Then we have Font banging on about Xavi every interview he gives. A Xavi who barely has any managing experience. He's expected to turn us into a contender again with no money and no experience in a top league as a manager.
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Where are these stats that he lost it 25 times or however many people are saying. Whoscored says dispossessed 2 times and 4 dribbles not completed. Are people really adding on pass success rate to his overall balls lost? As if Messi's role in the team isn't trying the final pass which leads to a goal. Fair criticism of him is fine and is worth a discussion but these stats don't seem to make sense.
He's forcing a lot of things this season. I guess he's getting impatient and doesn't trust his teammates to create anything. He definitely isn't playing his natural game this season.
Agree, I don't think he's played well all season tbh. He's had a couple of bright games and some indifferent like yesterday, but half have been poor too.
JohnN
Senior Member
serghei
Senior Member
Laporta is even more of a slimy populist than Font. Guy is like a joke these days. If people think he is the guy from 2003 they are going to have one rude awakening.
Even if the pandemic is over tomorrow, and somehow we would find money fast, it would take at least 2 years with all transfers working like magic, in the most optimistic scenario ever, to build a CL winning team. Even one that would have a decent chance. In 2.5 years Messi would be 36.. Add 5-6 years because he is one lazy walking player not some fitness freak like Ronaldo or Ibra, and you'll have someone leading this supposed new Barca who plays like a 45 years old granny, belonging more in a Barca retired legends charity match with the likes of Rivaldo and Ronaldinho.
We just had elections in Romania for Parliament yesterday, and the corrupt thieves won again because of dumb gullible masses. Even they are more realistic than our candidates.
Even if the pandemic is over tomorrow, and somehow we would find money fast, it would take at least 2 years with all transfers working like magic, in the most optimistic scenario ever, to build a CL winning team. Even one that would have a decent chance. In 2.5 years Messi would be 36.
. Add 5-6 years because he is one lazy walking player not some fitness freak like Ronaldo or Ibra, and you'll have someone leading this supposed new Barca who plays like a 45 years old granny, belonging more in a Barca retired legends charity match with the likes of Rivaldo and Ronaldinho.We just had elections in Romania for Parliament yesterday, and the corrupt thieves won again because of dumb gullible masses. Even they are more realistic than our candidates
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CatalinR10
Senior Member
let's see about Champions League
https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...rStatistics/Europe-Champions-League-2020-2021
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