Well, the criticism of his workrate was always available. The man is 34, do you expect him to press like a maniac now when he didn't do that in his prime? Also,i think it's pretty clear he is not adapted/or not really interested of playing for QSG.
Lionel "The Greatest of All Time" Messi
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Well, the criticism of his workrate was always available. The man is 34, do you expect him to press like a maniac now when he didn't do that in his prime? Also,i think it's pretty clear he is not adapted/or not really interested of playing for QSG.
Rassvet
Well-known member
Clown take. Finishing first makes a big difference in the draw.
DonAK
President of FC Barcelona
Except that teams have won the entire tournament finishing second in the group. Like Liverpool.
Idiotic to think it's game over if you finish second in the group. If you want to win the CL you have to go through some of the best teams anyway. If you're pissing your pants already then why even bother watching?
Besides I was talking about Messi's performances. People will forget him barely bothering now if he and PSG can turn it up in the KO stages.
KingLeo10
Senior Member
On one hand, Rassvet wanted Messi to leave Barca at any cost because doing otherwise would show lack of ambition.And now, the narrative is that Messi would have struggled AT ANY TEAM EXCEPT BARCA despite the only evidence being for this claim is 10 games for PSG while the dude is 34 and coming off a Copa America summer and constant WC qualifiers. Lad never even mentions the "ambitious and committed" Ramos who has yet to play a single minute for PSG and is struggling hard just to remain an active player.
Pretty clear you're just a discount BBZ at this point. You've set your narrative and want to fit the "data" (which there isn't much of) towards it. We can talk at the end of the season when there's actual data.
Rassvet
Well-known member
If he's not interested in playing for PSG, he should have taken a big paycut to stay or gone elsewhere. That just makes him sound like a mega mercenary if he chose to get a big salary for a club he has no interest in playing for.
KingLeo10
Senior Member
You expect him to actually love playing for PSG like he loved playing for Barcelona at one point?
Rassvet
Well-known member
You expect him to actually love playing for PSG like he loved playing for Barcelona at one point?
strawman again
KingLeo10
Senior Member
Because your arguments about him being unable to play anywhere except for Barcelona based on a 10 game sample size coming off a Copa/7 WC Qualifying matches are the paragon of rational thinking...
EDIT:
I think the simple solution to this is a wager. I think Messi will come good towards the end of the season and will have ~25 goals and about ~15 assists. I think they will make at least CL semis, but I am doubtful they will win the CL (Bayern and especially Pool look much better than I expected).
I also think that next season he will score 35-40 goals. But next season's CL chances depend on Mbappe. No Mbappe, no CL (unless replacement is Haaland).
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Rassvet
Well-known member
As I clarified previously, my conclusion is based partially on his PSG form but mostly by looking at how the other big teams play and how he might fit in. Same way I don't need to see Busi at Liverpool or Bayern to surmise that he would probably struggle there.
KingLeo10
Senior Member
There is a fatal flaw in this reasoning, especially using Busquets' example:
Busquets's recent seasons don't include a Ballon D'Or level season in 18-19 (51 goals and 20 assists in 50 games, 12 in CL) and a Ballon D'Or contending season only a couple months ago (2021, ~ 60 goals + assists, Copa America best player etc.) Busquets has been trash and one of the main reasons behind our CL woes since 2016-2017.
So while the extrapolation may be plausible in Busquet's case (I would agree it is), Messi's most recent showings aren't at trash level to justify such an extrapolation.
And Busquets was never even remotely close to Messi in the all-time standings. Usually, GOAT tiers find a way to make it work.
malvolio
Senior Member
They don't involve him in their play as much as they should. Messi is not another player that has to contribute and he's no poacher either to sleep the whole game and strike when time is right.
Best Messi is involved Messi. Starve him of the ball and he doesn't do well.
Messigician
Senior Member
He had barely 8km hour run lol
? messis performance in the KO stage in the past few years has been just as crappy, lol. you really dont want to go there
DonAK
President of FC Barcelona
I don't necessarily agree, but that wasn't really the point I was making.
All I'm saying is that no one will care if a team or player has a crap group stages if they do well in the KOs.
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