Ok, i see your point. But training is one thing, game is other. I think everbody knows that. I think yaya toure in one interview said that about messi and aguero, long story short he said they suck most of the time at training because they are 'sparing' themselves for the match. I think its not about guardiola and klopp, its more about putting the right players so that every player makes other one better on the pitch. Someone like zidane would suit us perfectly right now, he wasnt a mastermind of tactics or beautiful play, but he knew which player on that position gets best out of the others, and vice versa. Its stupid, but its that obvious in this case with these players.
I get what you're saying but I'm fairly sure you're wrong about Messi in training. Supposedly he's unbelievable in training