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linetty
Guest
Scholes based his opinion on the Valencia game so it shouldn't really be taken into account because of Enrique's crazy tactical variation.
We'll be fine.
We'll be fine.
Luis Enrique
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
Ursegor
World Champion
Huh? What's wrong with the statement? He's basically saying Messi has never been a player who put in much of a shift defensively but now his movement in general is even worse. Sounds about right, don't think he meant it literally with "chasing fullbacks" as in Scholes believing that Messi is still a winger. While in 12/13 and before Messi could decide games on his own even when Pedro and Alexis were shooting blanks every single week this isn't the case anymore. He needs more help now upfront, for example against Almeria he was a non-factor and Suarez and Neymar changed the game. Against Valencia he made the decisive cross but before that he was certainly not lighting things up in "best player of all time" fashion. Who knows how games against Athletic Bilbao etc. would have went were Neymar's goals decided the games. While Messi was decisive with the passes would he have decided the game on his own without Neymar getting subbed on? 12/13 and before he would, certainly against La Liga opposition. These days he has a lot of performances like against Valencia where he isn't exactly producing magic but still pulls off some passes and the decisive move unlike before when he was running defenders ragged non-stop AND was decisive. No one can convince me Messi is the same player even though he is possibly still the best player in the world. It hasn't been just the press making stuff up, Messi fanbois like Valdano, Menotti and even Tata have noted a decline in his game. Menotti said Messi looks bored and lost his passion almost a year ago. Hell, his own grandfather said he lost his spark.
People say "tactics and defenders" but I don't think the defensive line is a big issue anymore to blame all the woes on the defense. Barca doesn't concede many shots, many goals and has territorial advantage high up the pitch against most teams. 13 clean sheets in 19 games, expecting more would mean expecting perfection, Thiago Silva replacing Mathieu wouldn't turn Barca into a juggernaut. While Mathieu had some iffy clearances and got easily carded the last 2 games he didn't cost Barca at any point this season.
Tactics certainly play a bigger role and Lucho hasn't looked like a genius so far but Lucho's tactics aren't completely outlandish either way. 4-3-3, 2 aggressive fullbacks, Busquets dropping between the centerbacks in buildup, Messi free role, 2 wide forwards playing narrow, high line, pressing. Apart from some nuances it's the same as ever. It doesn't explain individual problems like Alves' obvious decline where he does nothing but lump the ball into the box with acres of space which he can't exploit. It doesn't explain why Busquets is playing in a way that people think he is carrying a hip injury although he vehemently denies that he has any discomfort which just proves that Busquets' level has dropped but people don't want to accept it and blame it on supposed injuries. When he lost the ball and Valencia almost scored from it it was down to Busquets alone and no tactics. Xavi's decline is accepted simply because he is old. Iniesta's form remains to be seen, questionable first half of a season already under Tata and not a very promising start so far this season.
All in all it's a bit more than "get a defender and Pep back and we'll rule the world again with this squad". Which is why I have developed some sympathy for Lucho in recent days. I've come to accept that this squad is simply not good enough anymore to guarantee trophies over teams like Real Madrid, Bayern or Chelsea. Still too many players in the starting lineup that have won it all and "look bored" instead of a collective that is dying on the pitch. Messi's form alone makes a huge difference. The way he played against Sevilla and APOEL he used to play every single game not long ago (even without the hattricks) and Barca looked like old school Barca. For some reason he has lost that consistency though.
Conclusion: Meh.
Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
Good post, Ursegor. I think both Scholes and you have nailed it.
SeloBarca
Senior Member
Same. Most players in the team has won everything you can win. Even Pep said one of the reasons he left was becouse he couldnt motivate the players anymore.
The players look like their doing their job, theres not much inspiration.
The urgency and frenezy is not there.
Youll get hell fo your last post, but i totally agree. The squad is kinda meh and shoulda been reformed much more over the last 4 years. Its just been piling up and we play mostly with the same core players we did 5 years ago.
There are much better players we coulda ogtten the last 4 years then what we brought in now. The only top notch new players we have now is Neymar, Suarez and maybe MatS, the rest is quite avarage.
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serghei
Senior Member
We need to stop hiring no-names to coach this team, that's what we need. Incompetent board, incompetent manager, stressed team. Laporta with a top class manager in 2016 and a new staff, that's the only way out of this s..t.
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Madara Uchiha
Guest
Word.
khaled_a_d
Senior Member
Half of the squad hasn't won that much,I can see the lack of hunger as an excuse for Pedro,Busquets & Pique only but no one else ,may be Messi but I am not sure what is up with him.not even sure if there is something with him
Xavi/Iniesta/Alves are past their physical prime which affected them a lot .Mascherano gives us all .other than names I mentioned only Adriano was here b4 2012
The thing is lack of real sporting project ,we don't know what to do ,what is the philosophy of the board ,they keep hyping La Masia and let talent like Thiago go,they keep saying we play tiki-taka and it is barca DNA and hire Tata who doesn't play that kind of football.we didn't renew the squad probably and let it age .with a transfer ban our long awaited CB signings(1st since Chygrynskiy in 2009) are 31 years old Mathieu and injury prone soon to be 29 Vermaelen .are we developing players within the club or with proper loans? lots of question mark .
bismp
Well-known member
I will have to disagree.I actually believe Ursegor is right...
The players have really gotten old.People still believe it is Pep era,but in fact all these players have aged 5 years.It is not the same to be 24 and 29....
Also,some of these players played well,because they were influenced by the perfomance of the others.For example Pique was influenced by the expsrienced Puyol,Busquets by Xavi/Iniesta etc
Most of all,as everyone knows,this team has won everything and there are just not motivated any more.
All this results in less pressing,less forward runs,less magic...
Furthermore,the players that were bought cannot fill the old players' boots,either because they cannot play that specific tactical role,or because they are just not good enough(eg Xavi-Rakitic).This does not mean they are bad.What i mean is that we shouldn't whine because the new midfielders cannot play as well as one of the best trios ever.
So,no,i do not believe that Lucho
ZenI
Professor Balthazar
I agree with Scholes and Ursegor. Sure Lucho's rotations doesn't help and I don't think he is a good coach, but there are more problems with the team. Just like Scholes says, we've won to much, no motivation, boarding to boredom almost, no creativity, urgency, hunger etc etc etc - we've been through this many times... Messi can't really decide games on his own? Half true, we just don't have the midfield we had before - we're not pressing, not moving, not combining and the Alves-Messi magic is long gone. But yes, Messi has been declining a little since 2 seasons now. The players we bought are so-so. Raki should be backup, like Keita - but than we had xavi/iniesta in prime, today we don't. Mathieu signing was not more than OK, Vermalen is a joke - an injured joke, Douglas is probably money laundering, Suarez is alright but not 70M fantastic yet.
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beautifulgame
Guest
Messi did put in a solid shift defensively under pep, especially for someone in his position and status
Barcilliant
Senior Member
Scholes is right but this board is useless and has no vision, plan or strategy
If the board had given Pep a blank cheque and asked him to rejuvenate the squad we would have been in much better shape.
If the board had given Pep a blank cheque and asked him to rejuvenate the squad we would have been in much better shape.
SeloBarca
Senior Member
Problem is this board didnt want any change. They wanted to ride on the succeswave, thinking it would go on forever. Pep saw the lack of motivation and decline and wanted change but was given the cold hand and was driven out. It will be interesting to hear what Pep will say once this board is gone. It feels like alot of players are quite disgruntled with this board aswell.
Kohe321
New member
Press conference starting soon. Will probably be mostly about the game on sunday, but I hope theres some questions on Montoyas situation as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYfh-hBTnfk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYfh-hBTnfk
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Flavia
Guest
Luis Enrique: "Montoya leaving? Won't discuss that in public. I'll talk with him, with Zubizarreta, and we'll see what CAS decides."
I think everyone in the club is confident the ban will be reduced. Just my impression. But they also thought fifa would never go ahead and ban us.
I think everyone in the club is confident the ban will be reduced. Just my impression. But they also thought fifa would never go ahead and ban us.
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