Luis Enrique

[FlaFCB]

I wouldn't say he is doing much worse than we do.And he is not having Messi,mind you.

Seriously,don't you see how fragile we are defensively and how limited our offensive play is?

No Messi, and it's Pep's 1st season vs Lucho's 3rd too. I doubt city will be this bad in his eventual 3rd season there. Gomes, denis and arda are all lucho's signings. The state of our midfield is on him only. Not getting a proper rb is on him too.

 

[bismp]

Let's say that MSN and Iniesta are injured and are substituted by Arda-Paco-Rafinha-Denis.

In the meanwhile,let's take 10-11 Barca as example and assume that Messi,Xavi and Iniesta(i'll even add Villa at the equation)are also injured and are substituted by Keita,Thiago,Bojan and Jefren.

So,these two crippled teams play against each other.I would bet my right hand that the 10/11 team would beat this one 9 times out of 10.Because it didin't rely on individual brilliance but on team play.

 

[serghei]

Yes, it did continue after Cruyff. Pep didn't bring in back, he built on it. Xavi and Iniesta already knew how to play that way, just as an example. Pique came back from utd and also already knew how to play, because he learned that in la masia. Barça always had a specific way of playing, after Cruyff. Even during the damned gaspart era. Rijkaard was a bit more direct, but not like this lucho team now. There was a good midfield back then as well.

Rijkhaard was a lot like Lucho. Similar ideas. He set up the team in several key away games exactly like Lucho does now. Look at Milan - Barcelona in 2005-06. It is the exact same tactical plan. Defending deep, with discipline, than make the difference with your key offensive players on the counter. There is nothig wrong with that. Absolutely nothing.

Do you think people here would have complained if the midfield was working and not getting exploited even if Lucho was playing a very direct style? No, because no one was bashing him or criticizing him from January 2015 to March 2016.

You constantly have to improve because the more your opposition gain knowledge about you, the easier will it be for them to find a solution to attack you. We have not improved, in fact we might have regressed which has lead to the situation of today.

Why is this being brought up after we won in a tough away game on Calderon? They created nothing in the first half, and except for 2-3 chances in the 2nd half Atletico was handled very well. And even those chances came most of them after individual errors from Mascherano, Gomes, Rakitic and Roberto.

Our defensive setup kept Atletico at bay. We won the game, dominated Atletico overall, scored 2 away goals and have basically the tie in our hands. This criticism is misplaced now. The game and Lucho handled the game exactly like an away game at a dangerous team needs to be handled. Defended well, and scored on the counter.

 

[KingMessi]

Let's say that MSN and Iniesta are injured and are substituted by Arda-Paco-Rafinha-Denis.

In the meanwhile,let's take 10-11 Barca as example and assume that Messi,Xavi and Iniesta(i'll even add Villa at the equation)are also injured and are substituted by Keita,Thiago,Bojan and Jefren.

So,these two crippled teams play against each other.I would bet my right hand that the 10/11 team would beat this one 9 times out of 10.Because it didin't rely on individual brilliance but on team play.

Arda solos. Current Barca wins.

 

[FlaFCB]

Rijkhaard was a lot like Lucho. Similar ideas. He set up the team in several key away games exactly like Lucho does now. Look at Milan - Barcelona in 2005-06. It is the exact same tactical plan. Defending deep, with discipline, than make the difference with your key offensive players on the counter. There is nothig wrong with that. Absolutely nothing.

That Barça didn't play as badly as this one does now. I really don't get your comparison. And it's not the "exact" plan, as everything is different. From players, to the coach, to the tactics. I'm not sure this current Barça would beat that arsenal in the final, with MSN or not.

Why is this being brought up after we won in a tough away game on Calderon? They created nothing in the first half, and except for 2-3 chances in the 2nd half Atletico was handled very well. And even those chances came most of them after individual errors from Mascherano, Gomes, Rakitic and Roberto.

Our defensive setup kept Atletico at bay. We won the game, dominated Atletico overall, scored 2 away goals and have basically the tie in our hands. This criticism is misplaced now. The game and Lucho handled the game exactly like an away game at a dangerous team needs to be handled. Defended well, and scored on the counter.

Simeone started with bad tactics, luckily for us. Starting without a cf was a big mistake from him, and once he rectified that, we were in trouble. Their finishing was also off, they had many chances to score, but luckily missed them. Barça didn't keep atletico at bay in the 2nd half, on the contrary. Better teams will keep punishing us. Or not that better, as even Betis managed to own us recently.

 

[Mido]

I must be one of the strongest advocates of tiki-taka playing style in this forum and there is no player who made me love football more than Xavi. I am still regretting his departure nowadays. Also, I am just a regular supporter , far from being an expert in football.

We must be realistic if we want to attain goals this season. Our squad seems to be too dual, heterogeneous and reliant on a few players to perform accordingly. Last 2 seasons Barca played some amazing football eventhough we suffered and still suffer from the departures of Xavi and Alves. But the supposed "gala 11" is nearly the same !

If we can't perform with the "gala 11" this may be due to the mental aspects of the game ( motivation, team spirit etc..) and/or to the fact that injuries and possibly , to a lesser extent, excessive rotations in the midfield affected the establishment of tactical automatisms.

It's now clear that with the absence of either Iniesta and/or Busquets we won't get close to the level of past 2 seasons with the same ideas.

I noticed however that when we were, sometimes, forced to make adjusttments because of these injuries we could "trap" the opponent tactically : take a look at the 5-2 win vs Sociedad at home or the first half vs Atletico at Calderon. Barca's toughest opponents are used to play against a "possession-enthusiastic" team but when they try to put us under pressure with a midfield that is set to play more vertically and has more physical presence and defensive toughness, they can be taken by surprise.

And I fully understand the identity problem some are pointing out here. But we cannot sacrifice this season in order to find this footprints again because they won't be found with these players. Iniesta-Busquets-Xavi days are over.

This is just some personal guess : maybe we should have the courage to try to develop two distinct and complementary systems , with two different elvens, in order to be less predictable and more flexible.

Midfield CL games + any game vs technically and/or tactically difficult teams :

--Iniesta-----------Rakitic--
----------Busquets----------

Midfield when we need to rest Iniesta ( or Busquets) or when we can afford it or if we need to play more vertically :

------------Rafinha/Messi------------
Gomes/Denis--------------Masche/Arda

3-4-3 should be tried a couple more times against less dangerous opponents at home.

Our Iniesta--Busquets--Rakitic midfield definitely needs to get back in shape with tough fixtures coming up. And the two upcoming games vs Atletico might be an excellent preparation for tougher fixtures (hopefully) coming up afterwards.

 

[Raketa10]

I agree with you, our only hope of winning the CL is Iniesta-Busi-Raki midfield playing like they did in 2015 but I do not know if this is possible without proper RB and with this kind of managing by Lucho.

And one more thing, we didn't just buy wrong players we bought to many similar players. Arda, Denis and Rafinha are way to similar and neither one of them is proper Barca type of midfielder and Gomes is just worse version of Rakitic. Only good thing is that Arda can be useful on wing.

And off course this is Lucho's fault he was for sure consulted when list of potential signings was made, same goes for RB position. We need to restructure our midfield this summer but I don't see this happening and that is the worst thing of all.

In my opinion insisting on wrong decision is the worst possible thing you can do. If you admit you bought wrong players damage can be minimized, you can try to replace them with other players, otherwise demage will just become bigger and bigger.

 

[rixxer]

[tw]827109958193909762[/tw]

Same shit.




It has always been like this, lucho isn't even the first to be criticized after a win. Barça has a way of playing that has been forgottten. Is Barça a results oriented team now? Are we like rm now? Identity has always been something we took pride in.

Barca always will and must be results oriented. We never gonna be Rayo, let's be honest. If the true Cruyff follower will bring mediocre results with Cryff ideas (van gaal at Manchester) the pitchforks will be out quicker you can ever imagine and rightfully so. Yes, it is wonderful to win everything (treble!) with a style, but those things happen rarely and on certain circumstances (right players, luck, right tactics, motivation etc) and the no coach is everything.

I do not think that Lucho is the untouchable totem and his ideas cannot be criticized, but one-liners #GETOUTOFMYTEAM (the latter "my team" is beyond ridiculous) after difficult win at CdR is a pity or even smth worse than pity. Yes, styles matter, but they are tweaked in circumstances and if results does not follow, the coach will be released or he will step down, but right now the answer is just "get out" and some distant hope that there will be Luke with saber sword and magical touch of force that will make "America" great again. Too simplistic for my taste.

To fire a successful coach in the middle of the season because of the style is not even the style of the great evil (read- Madrid R), it is just nonsense for me. Not Barca worthy, really, no. Even Chleski and Abra did not do that to Mou, but in here people are getting torches and ladders out after win at Atleti.

If there aren't any results after the season, it will be completely another story. Lucho probably knows it. Right know there are rant after rant towards Lucho or Licho (I really do not like that legends of this team are called names like that) even after the hard fought win(s) in this forum is a bit too much for me. As I was not following this forum during Rijkaard era (and yes, followed Barca as much as I could), was he ranted all-over like this during his last season as well? There were no results not even style at that time (van Bommel at the middle of the park...), but I have feeling that even he was not getting that kind of stick during his last season? Or was he called names like this now? A little respect towards legends even if they are losing it (and every coach are losing it eventually) would not be bad. It does not mean mof course, I repeat, that his ideas or tactics should not be questioned or criticized.
P.S To argue, that barca after the cruyff has always played in one system is not true, really, it isn't. Yes, some of ideas are immortal, but the system has been tweaked by several coaches, successfully and not successfully. Lucho has done same, successfully and now it seems, not that successfully. Lets criticize some of his ideas and his system with arguments but lets not call him some weird names and one-liners after the win. If results won't be there, he will go or will be let go.

 

[snowy]

These passmaps are uber-cool! A pic is worth a 1000 ... are they system generated for each match?

well you can never go wrong with a little R.E.S.P.E.C.T, datz 4 sure

As for the system, like the Big Pop Lama says, always good to keep an open mind hehe

 

[FlaFCB]

Barca always will and must be results oriented. We never gonna be Rayo, let's be honest. If the true Cruyff follower will bring mediocre results with Cryff ideas (van gaal at Manchester) the pitchforks will be out quicker you can ever imagine and rightfully so. Yes, it is wonderful to win everything (treble!) with a style, but those things happen rarely and on certain circumstances (right players, luck, right tactics, motivation etc) and the no coach is everything.

Barça is not results oriented first. And about not being rayo, not long ago Barça went 6 seasons without a trophy, because things were badly done, and I see this board taking us back there, with their new way of dealing with la masia, bad signings and the new stadium that will cost a lot of money.

I do not think that Lucho is the untouchable totem and his ideas cannot be criticized, but one-liners #GETOUTOFMYTEAM (the latter "my team" is beyond ridiculous) after difficult win at CdR is a pity or even smth worse than pity. Yes, styles matter, but they are tweaked in circumstances and if results does not follow, the coach will be released or he will step down, but right now the answer is just "get out" and some distant hope that there will be Luke with saber sword and magical touch of force that will make "America" great again. Too simplistic for my taste.

The critics are not for one game, but for all the team have been devolving over an one year period.

P.S To argue, that barca after the cruyff has always played in one system is not true, really, it isn't. Yes, some of ideas are immortal, but the system has been tweaked by several coaches, successfully and not successfully. Lucho has done same, successfully and now it seems, not that successfully. Lets criticize some of his ideas and his system with arguments but lets not call him some weird names and one-liners after the win. If results won't be there, he will go or will be let go.

Tweaking a system is one thing. Doing what lucho is doing to the midfield is something else. And again, it's not about a few games. Right now we still have Messi bailing us out, although we don't have a team. But once he's gone, I can see us becoming what Milan is now. Not being proactive when things need a change is the shortcut to that.

 

[FC B]

You guys have totally lost it. We just won on Calderon and we're almost in the final.

Thanks to Messi & Suarez brilliance rather to Lucho & Unzue tactics...

 

[serghei]

Thanks to Messi & Suarez brilliance rather to Lucho & Unzue tactics...

I bet you will say that even if we win the CL. Now people are saying Lucho had no role in the 2nd part in 2014-15. Rubbish. If a random football fan comes on this forum and reads some of the extreme things being ventilated here he'd think we've won nothing in the last 3 seasons and we are 5th in the League. The reality is much different. We have won the treble, the double, other trophies in between, are now almost in another final, still in the fight for the 2nd treble under Lucho, and with very good chances to win the CL. OK, we are no longer that consistent in the league, which is absolutely NORMAL, after two back to back wins, and considering that we have lost at least 6-7 points because the refs miss no chance of robbing us.

Lucho's record so far with the team is amazing. That is a reality that can't be denied without looking foolish and spoiled (in general). He is being trashed here, because, even if people admit this or not, they haven't coped mentally with the fact that what happened with Pep is over, and can't be repeated for a long time. I have gotten used to that reality, and now enjoy the team for what it can do, and how it tries to remain at the very top -- and succedes -- in spite of us losing some all time greats, like Xavi, Puyol, Alves, rather than complaining because it looks different than with Pep. What did you guys expect? Denis/Rafinha/Gomes being Xavi 2.0?

We are no longer dominating the midfield, because it is not our main strenght anymore. Simple as that. Lucho realised this, and has found ways to get around that. Kudos to him if it works.

 

[FlaFCB]

We are no longer dominating the midfield, because it is not our main strenght anymore. Simple as that. Lucho realised this

Lucho provoked that, with his signings. Key players like Xavi and Alves weren't properly replaced. I dont mean with players of the same level, but at least some characteristics. We're really a weakened team now. MSN won't keep bailing us out forever. Most teams have found out how to contain us and there is no plan B.

 

[serghei]

Lucho provoked that, with his signings. Key players like Xavi and Alves weren't properly replaced. MSN won't keep bailing us out forever. Most teams have found out how to contain us and there is no plan B.

Properly replaced. By who? People said oh Gundogan, let's get him. Same people that were against Vermaelen because of his injuries. Now Gundogan is out for the season, big surprise. There are no players on the market you could sign to replace Xavi and Alves. None. The ones that are good enough play for other top teams that won't sell.

So we're doing what a top team does in this case, we look for alternative ways of playing. And that is using the wings more, and not play in a crowded area where you need an immaculate first touch to play into. Rakitic, Gomes, Dens Suarez, Rafinha, none of these has a great first touch. They need more space than Xavi and Alves did. So they move more towards zones that are not as crowded and not as unforgiving if you lose the ball - the wings.

If we play a midfield oriented system right now, with the players we have, we would lose and lose royaly. Like City is losing, receiving 4 goals from Leicester and Everton. That is what happens when you impose a style without the right players.

 

[FlaFCB]

Properly replaced. By who? People said oh Gundogan, let's get him. Same people that were against Vermaelen because of his injuries. Now Gundogan is out for the season. There are no players on the market you could sign to replace Xavi and Alves. None. The ones that are good enough play for other top teams that won't sell.

There's a lot of players with similar characteristics, you just have to try to find them. They don't need to be on the same level as Xavi or Alves either. Kroos was passed on who knows why, but there were better names than gomes or denis in the market. Young players, sure, but with a better profile for Barça. Their "liga experience" BS got us players like gomes or arda. Gundogan and verratti are pipe dreams, but in ligue 1 was the place to look. As Umtiti was found, there were others.