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FlaFCB
Guest
Gomes was his choice. Licho also wanted a 9. It's on both him and robert.
Luis Enrique
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
Gomes was his choice. Licho also wanted a 9. It's on both him and robert.
El Flaco
Active member
Exactly.
Although, not sure who else he could pick over Iniesta and Rakitic. It would be hard for any manager to anticipate their average play in such big match (especially Iniesta, he was unusually dreadful).
Gomes wasn't bad tonight.
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FlaFCB
Guest
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DonAndres
Wild Man of Borneo
This may be kneejerk, but I can only trust the evidence and circumstances apparent to me.
I believe that this is most likely the end for Barcelona's cycle. Barca bounced back from the post 2012 decline to win another treble, but I think this time our fall will be more permanent. It might sound like all doom and gloom but I'm basing this on one assumption:
The club will continue to be run in the same way and that there will be no major change in the approach to the sporting project.
If the above assumption is true, which I am 80-90% sure of, then it's only logical to assume that the club is destined for decline. After all, with the state of this squad/tactics there is a massive need for change to the sporting project from the top down.
The club sticking to their methodology means that Unzue is most likely to be the next manager, which would be a continuation of the glaring failures of the current project. The alternative, Valverde, does not bring much hope either as he is conservative and the rebuilding demands are likely above his abilities/intuition. I simply don't see him bringing any real change either. As far as transfers are concerned, I strongly expect us to not properly address the issues in defense or midfield. Iniesta is past it, Rakitic is struggling, and the rest are abysmal. Only Busquets would make it into an *ideal* version of next season's team. Our midfield is in total ruins, and what's the solution? Keeping Gomes? Buying Coutinho? Lol. Our midfield is shit and I would put money that it stays shit. If we switch back to 4-3-3, we need a RB: the only 'supposed' option is Bellerin who is trash. If we stay with 3-4-3 we need a CB because Mascherano is shit. Signings that could potentially 180 our situation (like Verratti) are simply not happening; if anything Verratti will be even more attracted to Juve after this thrashing is finalized over two legs. Signing Dybala/Dembele while the rest of our squad clearly suffers like this will fix nothing, and only waste career years for those players having come here hoping for success. Current key players like Messi/Pique/Busi are nearing their declining years as well, and they will no longer be able to hold up the team as they have. The transfer hurdles that Barca have to overcome to make this squad able to compete over the next few years with the likes of Bayern/Juve/RM are very high.
The only reliable way for Barca to rise up once more is for a serious diversion from the path that the club is currently taking, and there is NO ONE in a position of power who can/will induce this. With the current board, Robert won't be fired. With all of the (undeserved) power that Robert has, the new coach will be limited to Unzue/Valverde and the transfers will continue to be in the vain that we've seen. There simply is no force for change in the club at the moment, my optimism for the next few years is miniscule at best.
I believe that this is most likely the end for Barcelona's cycle. Barca bounced back from the post 2012 decline to win another treble, but I think this time our fall will be more permanent. It might sound like all doom and gloom but I'm basing this on one assumption:
The club will continue to be run in the same way and that there will be no major change in the approach to the sporting project.
If the above assumption is true, which I am 80-90% sure of, then it's only logical to assume that the club is destined for decline. After all, with the state of this squad/tactics there is a massive need for change to the sporting project from the top down.
The club sticking to their methodology means that Unzue is most likely to be the next manager, which would be a continuation of the glaring failures of the current project. The alternative, Valverde, does not bring much hope either as he is conservative and the rebuilding demands are likely above his abilities/intuition. I simply don't see him bringing any real change either. As far as transfers are concerned, I strongly expect us to not properly address the issues in defense or midfield. Iniesta is past it, Rakitic is struggling, and the rest are abysmal. Only Busquets would make it into an *ideal* version of next season's team. Our midfield is in total ruins, and what's the solution? Keeping Gomes? Buying Coutinho? Lol. Our midfield is shit and I would put money that it stays shit. If we switch back to 4-3-3, we need a RB: the only 'supposed' option is Bellerin who is trash. If we stay with 3-4-3 we need a CB because Mascherano is shit. Signings that could potentially 180 our situation (like Verratti) are simply not happening; if anything Verratti will be even more attracted to Juve after this thrashing is finalized over two legs. Signing Dybala/Dembele while the rest of our squad clearly suffers like this will fix nothing, and only waste career years for those players having come here hoping for success. Current key players like Messi/Pique/Busi are nearing their declining years as well, and they will no longer be able to hold up the team as they have. The transfer hurdles that Barca have to overcome to make this squad able to compete over the next few years with the likes of Bayern/Juve/RM are very high.
The only reliable way for Barca to rise up once more is for a serious diversion from the path that the club is currently taking, and there is NO ONE in a position of power who can/will induce this. With the current board, Robert won't be fired. With all of the (undeserved) power that Robert has, the new coach will be limited to Unzue/Valverde and the transfers will continue to be in the vain that we've seen. There simply is no force for change in the club at the moment, my optimism for the next few years is miniscule at best.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Also, I am personally tired of that Barca's DNA shit with players like Xavi, Iniesta, Denis, Fabregas and similar.
Slow turtles, weak in physical area and awesome in technique.
It worked once with prime Xavi-Iniesta-Messi and it won't work ever again in european cups.
Interesting stats to consider.
Let's say that teams with huge physical strength are: Milan, Juve, Bayern, Inter, Chelsea, Atletico
Let's see how we played against them from Pep till today in knockout rounds:
2009:
-- won: Bayern, Chelsea
2010:
-- Inter, KO
2011:
--
2012:
-- Milan, won
-- Chelsea, KO
2013:
-- Milan, won
-- Bayern, KO
2014:
-- Atletico, KO
2015:
-- Bayern, Juve, won
2016:
-- Atletico, KO
2017:
-- Juve, KO?
So, since Pep, we have:
6:6 (if we lose to Juve).
Our ALL CL KO's since Pep is the "same" type of teams over and over:
1. Inter
2. Chelsea
3. Bayern
4. Atletico
5. Atletico
6. Juventus
Teams who are weaker than us on technique, but who usually have taller, stronger, faster players.
We are usually outplayed in a middle, they run more than us, they are better and faster in duels, tackles, arial duels etc.
We are especially poor in away matches against these physically tougher teams.
Also, if we want to dig deeper in our past, it is repeating.
I personally had a feeling tonight: "Omg, I have watched this fucking match too many times in our history. We have the ball and we can't do anything, and our opponents are scoring a goal after goal from every shot and from every counter."
In 2008', we were knocked out by Man Utd, that is the only team which aren't as physical as other teams.
In 2007', we lost to Liverpool. The same old team who runs like crazy and has physically stronger players.
In 2005, we lost to Mourinho's Chelsea. Matches were the same as our away matches to Psg and Juve this season.
If you felt bad today, older Barca's fans are feeling the same way over and over all the time, and the same shit always repeats.
What I am trying to say: more or less, we CAN'T lose to any technical team in the world (except to Real from time to time).
If we'll play against technical teams like Arsenal, Roma, French teams, Man City and similar, we will usually eat them alive.
But when we face Bayern, Atletico, Juve, the same crap happens every time.
All matches are more or less the same.
For example, in the last 4 years when we had Messi+Neymar together:
2014 Atletico: Messi and Neymar were invisible against a physically tougher team.
2016 Atletico: Messi and Neymatr invisible, the whole team can't create anything.
2017 Juve: the same old story. Where is Messi? Where is Neymar? Plus, the whole team can't create anything.
My point is: Denis, Iniesta, Rafinha and other guys are obviously good enough for La liga and when we face Porto, Monaco, Man City, Psg, Arsenal, Man Utd and similar.
But when we face physically strong teams, we are losing in more than 50% of knockout matches in the last 15-ish years.
So, imo, in the future we will need to have at least one "different" midfielder (NOT Gomes) like Van Bommel, Cocu, even Thiago Motta in the past.
Today, Juve:
190cm Mandzukic
190cm Bonucci
189cm Khedira
187cm Chiellini
184cm Higuain
181cm Alex Sandro
180cm Pjanic
179cm Cuadrado
177cm Dybala
172cm Dani Alves
= average height 182,9 cm
Now, our guys:
194cm Pique
189cm Mathieu
184cm Rakitic
182cm Suarez
181cm Umtiti
178cm Roberto
175cm Neymar
174cm Mascherano
171cm Iniesta
170cm Messi
Their midfield+attack:
= 183,2cm
Barca's midfield and attack:
= 176,3
I am not saying that a pure height is everything (since we already have Busquets and Gomes).
But surely, playing with players who are physically weak like Xavi and Iniesta (but are not technically good like Xavi+Iniesta) is not the answer either (Denis, Rafinha, Roberto, current Iniesta etc).
This is one of the reasons why we can't have a plan B.
We ALWAYS (for 20-30 years) have only one gameplan: play our game. If it works=awesome. If it is not working=just try the same thing over and over and hope that it will start working (lol).
Again, I can't explain how many times I have been watching tonight's game through our past.
We always lose in exactly the same way against these teams.
We look like kids who pass the ball around, and who are easily pushed and dispossessed in every duel.
And they are just scoring... and scoring... and scoring... with head, with feet, from counters, from corners, in 100s of different ways.
While we can always score only with feet, from Barca's DNA Action.
Slow turtles, weak in physical area and awesome in technique.
It worked once with prime Xavi-Iniesta-Messi and it won't work ever again in european cups.
Interesting stats to consider.
Let's say that teams with huge physical strength are: Milan, Juve, Bayern, Inter, Chelsea, Atletico
Let's see how we played against them from Pep till today in knockout rounds:
2009:
-- won: Bayern, Chelsea
2010:
-- Inter, KO
2011:
--
2012:
-- Milan, won
-- Chelsea, KO
2013:
-- Milan, won
-- Bayern, KO
2014:
-- Atletico, KO
2015:
-- Bayern, Juve, won
2016:
-- Atletico, KO
2017:
-- Juve, KO?
So, since Pep, we have:
6:6 (if we lose to Juve).
Our ALL CL KO's since Pep is the "same" type of teams over and over:
1. Inter
2. Chelsea
3. Bayern
4. Atletico
5. Atletico
6. Juventus
Teams who are weaker than us on technique, but who usually have taller, stronger, faster players.
We are usually outplayed in a middle, they run more than us, they are better and faster in duels, tackles, arial duels etc.
We are especially poor in away matches against these physically tougher teams.
Also, if we want to dig deeper in our past, it is repeating.
I personally had a feeling tonight: "Omg, I have watched this fucking match too many times in our history. We have the ball and we can't do anything, and our opponents are scoring a goal after goal from every shot and from every counter."
In 2008', we were knocked out by Man Utd, that is the only team which aren't as physical as other teams.
In 2007', we lost to Liverpool. The same old team who runs like crazy and has physically stronger players.
In 2005, we lost to Mourinho's Chelsea. Matches were the same as our away matches to Psg and Juve this season.
If you felt bad today, older Barca's fans are feeling the same way over and over all the time, and the same shit always repeats.
What I am trying to say: more or less, we CAN'T lose to any technical team in the world (except to Real from time to time).
If we'll play against technical teams like Arsenal, Roma, French teams, Man City and similar, we will usually eat them alive.
But when we face Bayern, Atletico, Juve, the same crap happens every time.
All matches are more or less the same.
For example, in the last 4 years when we had Messi+Neymar together:
2014 Atletico: Messi and Neymar were invisible against a physically tougher team.
2016 Atletico: Messi and Neymatr invisible, the whole team can't create anything.
2017 Juve: the same old story. Where is Messi? Where is Neymar? Plus, the whole team can't create anything.
My point is: Denis, Iniesta, Rafinha and other guys are obviously good enough for La liga and when we face Porto, Monaco, Man City, Psg, Arsenal, Man Utd and similar.
But when we face physically strong teams, we are losing in more than 50% of knockout matches in the last 15-ish years.
So, imo, in the future we will need to have at least one "different" midfielder (NOT Gomes) like Van Bommel, Cocu, even Thiago Motta in the past.
Today, Juve:
190cm Mandzukic
190cm Bonucci
189cm Khedira
187cm Chiellini
184cm Higuain
181cm Alex Sandro
180cm Pjanic
179cm Cuadrado
177cm Dybala
172cm Dani Alves
= average height 182,9 cm
Now, our guys:
194cm Pique
189cm Mathieu
184cm Rakitic
182cm Suarez
181cm Umtiti
178cm Roberto
175cm Neymar
174cm Mascherano
171cm Iniesta
170cm Messi
Their midfield+attack:
= 183,2cm
Barca's midfield and attack:
= 176,3
I am not saying that a pure height is everything (since we already have Busquets and Gomes).
But surely, playing with players who are physically weak like Xavi and Iniesta (but are not technically good like Xavi+Iniesta) is not the answer either (Denis, Rafinha, Roberto, current Iniesta etc).
This is one of the reasons why we can't have a plan B.
We ALWAYS (for 20-30 years) have only one gameplan: play our game. If it works=awesome. If it is not working=just try the same thing over and over and hope that it will start working (lol).
Again, I can't explain how many times I have been watching tonight's game through our past.
We always lose in exactly the same way against these teams.
We look like kids who pass the ball around, and who are easily pushed and dispossessed in every duel.
And they are just scoring... and scoring... and scoring... with head, with feet, from counters, from corners, in 100s of different ways.
While we can always score only with feet, from Barca's DNA Action.
Last edited:
Lelouch vi Britannia
Banned
Good post. Which makes me even more depressed
Maybe Xavi can turn things around when he comes back as coach? Normally I wouldn't put so much trust in someone with no coaching experience but he definitely has the footballing IQ to pull it off.
F
FlaFCB
Guest
Agree 100%. Sadly, the gaspart vibes are strong. I also have no faith anything will change. This board is as dumb as it gets.
jamrock
Senior Member
It as starts at the top, I have been saying for years now, most of the good that as happened under this new regime, can him someway be linked to Laporta, most of the decisions that are purely these guys with the exception of a year things have been horrible.
I'm not saying bring back Laporta,(though I would love that) but clearly these individuals running the club, don't have the capacity to bring success on the sporting size for a sustained period.
I'm not saying bring back Laporta,(though I would love that) but clearly these individuals running the club, don't have the capacity to bring success on the sporting size for a sustained period.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
It is all down to who they hire as the next manager as they clearly put a lot of trust in that person for transfer etc.
Million miles away from Gaspart era. Even with this squad a top manager would have Barca close to treble success. Luchos arrogance has fucked him more than squad available.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Laporta wanted to break world record for Pogba as his solution and signed Ibra for 70m with Etoo thrown and Chyg for 25m in his last transfer window.
He is not what is needed and is not what the recent success is all about.
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