Luis Suárez

[kattanib]

Imagine if this had been another player. Everyone on this forum would be killing that player.

It's this tunnel vision which is killing our team. It's like last season when people kept arguing about Rakitic and Busquets and how they're both still great and should always play, or how some guys started a Rakitic v Busquets war, without realizing both players are a problem vs. teams who play with a high intensity and press like crazy in the CL KOs.

It's not like in La Liga or Copa del Rey. The pace, intensity, pressure is tenfold. Not even Clasicos can compare to it anymore.

Rakitic, Busquets and Suarez have struggled immensely.

They either don't have the legs for it anymore, are shot mentally or both.

How about you lose your tunnel vision as well

- If a player is considered good when benchmarked to other players of his same age, then the player is doing a good job
- If a striker in our team is not given the priority to score, not given penalties or free kicks, then he will score less. Even when compared with other strikers who do not have this disadvantage
- If the player is playing as a starter and the team can do better by bringing or playing someone else instead, then this falls on the manager and the club. Not the player.

In Suarez case:
- He is doing great for his age
- The club did not buy another Striker to take his place until this season
- If Suarez proves to be a better finisher than Griezman at the CF position, then it is only reasonable for him to take that position

Quite simple honestly. You have cards, accept them and play with them wisely. If you want to stay in denial and fantasize about what you don’t have then go ahead and do that.. but that doesn’t make you any wiser

 

[DonAK]

How about you lose your tunnel vision as well

- If a player is considered good when benchmarked to other players of his same age, then the player is doing a good job
- If a striker in our team is not given the priority to score, not given penalties or free kicks, then he will score less. Even when compared with other strikers who do not have this disadvantage
- If the player is playing as a starter and the team can do better by bringing or playing someone else instead, then this falls on the manager and the club. Not the player.

In Suarez case:
- He is doing great for his age
- The club did not buy another Striker to take his place until this season
- If Suarez proves to be a better finisher than Griezman as the CF position, then it is only reasonable for him to take that position

Quite simple honestly. You have cards, accept them and play with them wisely. If you want to stay in denial and fantasize about what you don’t have then go ahead and do that.. but that doesn’t make you any wiser

I don't see what that got to do with anything, again.

I'm not saying we should bench him for Abel Ruiz. I'm just saying people making up excuses for his horrid goalscoring form is stupid.

He is declining, but like with other players some guys are refusing to recognize it. When you criticize Suarez you have these guys calling you out for being harsh.

Well the harsh reality is that he's sucked in the CL the last few years.

There's a lot of things I cannot change. I cannot change Valverde as the Barca manager. Let's accept reality and the fact that we're still winning La Liga titles instead of criticizing and complaining about his management too.

 

[Arizona Scott]

...

It's not like in La Liga or Copa del Rey. The pace, intensity, pressure is tenfold. Not even Clasicos can compare to it anymore. .

Quite simple not true. The highest level match in intensity and execution I witnessed last year Liverpool-City part II (maybe to be the two best squads in the world last year and league pretty much at stake). The highest level match I saw 2 years ago was the 2nd Classico--again the two best teams with also largely their league at stake.

I bet your entire narrative would be different had Dembele finished off the tie--than Barca is 70% sure as CL champions. Or if had Atletico defended one more corner well (Ramos) or Juanfran not missed his penalty--narratives totally different.

The truth is last year the margins between whether Barca, Liverpool or City won the CL we razor thin. Could have been any of them with one different call or bounce. Or maybe City doesn't have the "legs" since they can't seem to get a a final and only once a semi.

 

[DonAK]

Quite simple not true. The highest level match in intensity and execution I witnessed last year Liverpool-City part II (maybe to be the two best squads in the world last year and league pretty much at stake). The highest level match I saw 2 years ago was the 2nd Classico--again the two best teams with also largely their league at stake.

I bet your entire narrative would be different had Dembele finished off the tie--than Barca is 70% sure as CL champions. Or if had Atletico defended one more corner well (Ramos) or Juanfran not missed his penalty--narratives totally different.

The truth is last year the margins between whether Barca, Liverpool or City won the CL we razor thin. Could have been any of them with one different call or bounce. Or maybe City doesn't have the "legs" since they can't seem to get a a final and only once a semi.

We were fortunate vs. Liverpool in the first leg, but unfortunately as expected with this manager and the likes of Rakitic, Busquets and Suarez underperforming heavily in that competition the last few years, we were exposed in the end.

My narrative wouldn't change. It's something I've said for at least the last couple of years when it's brought up here.

It's not a narrative when it comes to Suarez either. It's a fact that his goalscoring form in that competition and performances in general have been bad for the last three years.

 

[kattanib]

Quite simple not true. The highest level match in intensity and execution I witnessed last year Liverpool-City part II (maybe to be the two best squads in the world last year and league pretty much at stake). The highest level match I saw 2 years ago was the 2nd Classico--again the two best teams with also largely their league at stake.

I bet your entire narrative would be different had Dembele finished off the tie--than Barca is 70% sure as CL champions. Or if had Atletico defended one more corner well (Ramos) or Juanfran not missed his penalty--narratives totally different.

The truth is last year the margins between whether Barca, Liverpool or City won the CL we razor thin. Could have been any of them with one different call or bounce. Or maybe City doesn't have the "legs" since they can't seem to get a a final and only once a semi.

Very true; City Liverpool and Barca could have all won the champions league last year .. if anything, I biasly think we had the better team of the three

 

[Arizona Scott]

Yes, it triggers me to see people make up excuses for Suarez and believe he's still the same as he was in 2015.

This is not fully updated, but I posted this a few months ago, or maybe last year.

Since 2016/17 - Games and Goals in ( )

Luis Suarez - 24(4)

Robert Lewandowski - 27(21)

Karim Benzema - 29(14)

Harry Kane - 16(13)

Sergio Aguero - 18(12)

Edinson Cavani - 22(17)

Roberto Firmino - 20(12)

BONUS:

Antoine Griezmann - 25(12)

Not to forget this...

Das ist alles.

Nice cherry picking one element. Here is one more complete but still limited measure.

Do I have to do your homework? OK did most of it (could have missed those would fit in the lower group but I don't think I missed anyone over 50 goals from the top 5 leagues).

GOALS FOR CLUB LAST 2 YEARS INCLUDING FROM CHAMPIONS LEAGUE (or Europa if applicable) MATCHES:

Messi, 97
Lewa, 81
CR, 72
Salah, 71
Kane, 65
PEA, 64
Aguero, 62
Cavani, 62
Mpabbe, 60
Suarez, 56
Neymar, 51
Griezmann, 50
Ben Yedder, 50
Sterling, 48
Mane, 46
Aspas, 46
Iacardi, 46
Quag, 45
Firmino, 43
Benzema, 42
Lukaku, 42
Rodrigo, 41
Vardy, 41
Werner, 40
Zapata, 39
Hazard, 38
Jesus, 38
Son, 38
Jovic, 36
Lacazette, 36
Dybala, 36
Sane, 30
Rashford, 26

Now how does that company look of players who got more than 50 goals the last 2 years for their club?

Now who are we talking about attaining to improve upon Suarez's goal production by benching him for that player? How much would it cost for said player, even if there is any selling point for the selling team?
As far as I am concerned the two best alternatives we could have gotten this offseason were Griezmann and Jovic, neither of which had Suarez's goal production and further we got one of them!

Now if you can't find a reasonable alternative to acquire to replace him can you stop the bitching and moaning about the supposed "low production" from one Luis Suarez?

 

[kattanib]

We were fortunate vs. Liverpool in the first leg, but unfortunately as expected with this manager and the likes of Rakitic, Busquets and Suarez underperforming heavily in that competition the last few years, we were exposed in the end.

My narrative wouldn't change. It's something I've said for at least the last couple of years when it's brought up here.

I wonder how we managed to disguise in 38 La Liga games and 9 champions league games last season .. our true colors were exposed indeed in one game. The remaining 47 games were outliers

 

[DonAK]

Dude, I've literally told you multiple times that I'm talking about the Champions League. I've said it very clearly too. And I've mentioned that Suarez' drop-off in that competition have also coincided with our drop-off in the CL in general as the goalscoring burden remains on Messi alone with Suarez not doing well.

So why exactly are you calling me out for cherry picking stats when I've literally told you that:

1. I recognize Suarez is still a good player, even though his performances and goalscoring form in general are declining
2. I also recognize he's been awful in the CL lately while you're making up excuses for him scoring 6 goals in the last 30 games, which is the last three seasons when we started performing very poorly in that competition.

 

[xXKonan]

There's no defending that 6 goals in 30 CL games for a top tier striker he really was.

To put it in perspective, Dembele has 6 CL goals in 21 games which included one season that he was nearly out of action for 4 months and he isn't a striker either.

 

[Arizona Scott]

...Unlike some of you guys I'm not afraid to admit I have been wrong or concede the fact that a certain player is declining or playing badly.

If you want to look at metrics and his overall play then I'm willing to do that too. You go first. Just don't cherry pick certain Whoscored or Squawka stats like you've done in the past and throw a tantrum when called out for it.

1st, I have said Suarez is not the player he was 4-5-6 years ago. (In fact there isn't a #9 in the world right now at that level, besides the point though).

2nd, looking at the total metrics from whoscored or squaka or sofascore is about as least a cherry picking as you can get, what isn't, is isolating one one (big chances missed). If you want to look at just one metric, at least pick goals and base on a good sample, like all seasons matches or meany seasons matches. More data, better predictiveness.

3rd, I am all for upgraded/helping our #9 position, Suarez's position. Of the most promising viable options to at least lesson the burden even if they are not the classic #9 Suarez is (Jovic, AG), we got one of them.

4th, would have been ALL IN for getting Mbappe, Kane, Salah or Mane truly putting Suarez to a substitute role. There are complications to near impossibilities to each of those moves this offseason, puts us back to #3, which of the realistic possibilities we did alright.

 

[DonAK]

I wonder how we managed to disguise in 38 La Liga games and 9 champions league games last season .. our true colors were exposed indeed in one game. The remaining 47 games were outliers

No, we were dominant and playing very well under Valverde while you were calling for him to get sacked halfway through last season or feeling distant and depressed about our play of style.

 

[Arizona Scott]

Dude, I've literally told you multiple times that I'm talking about the Champions League. I've said it very clearly too. And I've mentioned that Suarez' drop-off in that competition have also coincided with our drop-off in the CL in general as the goalscoring burden remains on Messi alone with Suarez not doing well.

So why exactly are you calling me out for cherry picking stats when I've literally told you that:

1. I recognize Suarez is still a good player, even though his performances and goalscoring form in general are declining
2. I also recognize he's been awful in the CL lately while you're making up excuses for him scoring 6 goals in the last 30 games, which is the last three seasons when we started performing very poorly in that competition.

And I have pointed out the fallacy of judging a player based on one competition--with what 4-6 meaningful match base per year typically (Barca always cruises in group stages), particularly on a club that goes hard on 3 fronts and a player where he is a fixture on the national team and where those comps are even more pressured than the CL. Your whole premise of isolating the CL as some kind of different sport of footy that all the rest is faulting. Like said, is it because a smaller ball, bigger goals, or they play with 10lbs weight on their ankles. The primary unique element to it is the key matches are like March-April-May, and yes we have hurt ourselves in this competition by peaking in form/fitness/health/energy early and not having enough depth or a coach not wise enough to better prepare his squad for the evening. The biggest disaster in our CL tie with Liverpool was Alba--but until that point he had the best year of any left back in the world.

 

[Hybryd]

Don't know how you can talk shit about this guy.
Great player. He should go play for a bigger club.
Somewhere where fans would appreciate him.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Why are you entering forum of a team you hate while trying to get banned so desperately? Thought EPL turds had bunch of their own forums.

 

[Arizona Scott]

Don't know how you can talk shit about this guy.
Great player. He should go play for a bigger club.
Somewhere where fans would appreciate him.

Many folks here crap on Messi and want to get the whip out thinking pushing him to play harder in all phases and scream at his teammates and his manager is the answer, and I'll be the 1st to admit Suarez is no Lionel Messi. Some seriously deranged and/or entitled "fans"